CABINET VETO: "Forbidding the assimilation of foreign workers"

[WhiteBandit]

I understand, but at this moment in time I feel that it would be very difficult to get the required 2/3 in order to pass and override this veto. Public opinion seems to be to be in favor of freeing the foreign worker (for all the wrong reasons it seems).

Perhaps a reworded bill that better explains things (such as what Spiffor has previously spoke of) would be better. Someone should also try to start a political movement to counter these so called "Abolitionists."

[Spiffor]

E_T : I've just spent 4 hours doing the complete estimation of PW needs for our whole country (see the minister orders thread) which I should have spent doing the extremely urgent university work I have to do for tuesday. You will wait for the implementation plan a little longer.

Edit : I have begun writing on this. You can check this thread

[ManicStarSeed]

One of the reasons I voted for the veto (and against the bill in the first place) is that it FORBIDS the assimilation of foreign workers. It is simply too restrictive, Maybe if a law sets priorities or limits or target ratios, I would go for it. As written the law is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off when the DM joins two or three foreign workers by accident.

Mss

[Shiber]

The bill forbids the assimilation of foreign workers until all native workers have been assimilated. It says so in the first post of the bill thread. Quoting:

Originally posted by Aggie
This senate bill forbids the assimilation of foreign workers into our cities until all native workers have been assimilated. This poll will run for 72 hrs.
Aggie

[Donegeal]

While I agree that the Bill was restrictive on the DM and there for agree that it should have been vetoed, I personally will not let RP interfer with actual game play.

"Slavery is morally wrong."

ITS A FREAKING GAME!

So what is best in game play, not RP. This is why the razing of Hamburg and Stuttgard was fine. It was in the best interest of the game. Keep RP out of politics!

Plus, look at Greece. They Raze. Do you think they will intergrate German workers into their cities? No. And why wont they? Because they are free!

The entire point of these on going discussions and polls is utterly ridiculous. It shouldn't even be a topic.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by donegeal
While I agree that the Bill was restrictive on the DM and there for agree that it should have been vetoed, I personally will not let RP interfer with actual game play.

"Slavery is morally wrong."

ITS A FREAKING GAME!

So what is best in game play, not RP. This is why the razing of Hamburg and Stuttgard was fine. It was in the best interest of the game. Keep RP out of politics!

Plus, look at Greece. They Raze. Do you think they will intergrate German workers into their cities? No. And why wont they? Because they are free!

The entire point of these on going discussions and polls is utterly ridiculous. It shouldn't even be a topic.

[roadcage]

Pierre liked the attention he was getting from the hoomans of late. What with the bruhaha over Integration with the cities and all, but he just didn't understand what it was all about. After all who would want to give up a cushy railgang job to go back to the cities. But it looked like somethng was going to happen and soon. Pierre was extremely concerned for his personal situation because one of the hoomans was bound and determined to give preference to workers made by the original owning civ of the city in question. This truly scared Pierre, because he could remember Paris. It was "just way too crowded"

[Kuciwalker]

This veto is ILLEGAL.

[Spiffor]

After assessing our needs, the basic process will be so :

- We wait for current projects to be completed OR we end the war, before building hospitals (except in places where they are already planned)

- In the meantime, we'll integrate NATIVE workers in the population challenged cities. I didn't count the exact gap between current population in cities and pop 12, but It appears to be far less than 82.

- There will be some time before hospitals are around, except in a handful cities. Since most of our workers won't be able to integrate anyways, it is better to keep slaves during this period

- Once we can demographically boom (hospitals built + no unhappiness problems), slaves will be integrated first. About 30 natives will remain in the fields. These 30 workers will represent 1.1% of our 1305 AB budget.

- I estimate German cities to need about 20-30 native workers during 2 turns to be completely improved. In terms of pollution, 30 workers mean 5 polluted mountains cleaned per turn, and 15 polluted grasslands / plains / deserts cleaned per turn.
I doubt there will be more pollution, but I'll be able to make better estimates in the waiting time before hospitals are around

[joncnunn]

Spiffor, the ratio between cleaning polution on mountains compared to grassland/plains/deserts is 3:1, not 2:1.

It's Hills and Forest that takes 2:1 for polution.

As for the number of workers to keep for polution maintenance, I think that if we have enough for 12 poluted grasslands/ plains / deserts = 4 pollued mountains we will have plenty.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Spiffor, the ratio between cleaning polution on mountains compared to grassland/plains/deserts is 3:1, not 2:1.

It's Hills and Forest that takes 2:1 for polution.

As for the number of workers to keep for polution maintenance, I think that if we have enough for 12 poluted grasslands/ plains / deserts = 4 pollued mountains we will have plenty.

Yes, maybe 24 native workers would be enough, rather than 30. Again, I think we should register how much pollution we get before integrating the bulk of our workers to have a more accurate estimate.
About my math : where did I make a mistake ?

[joncnunn]

Hum, I don't see the math error now, perhaps I looked at the numbers wrong the first time.

We'll need to calculate polution based on what it will be when we have Hospitals + Factories everywhere and the cities have reached max size and in addition consider how large an empire we are growing to.

In my own games, I have more polution caused by population than structures in the industrial era, and even in the modern era, building Mass Transit almost always removes more polution than the Recyling Center.

If we're only planning on Annexing Germany, then I think 24 Workers (or 48 Slaves) will be sufficent. But if we are planning on annexing England or Rome and placing Hospitals and Factories there, we may need 30 workers (or 60 Slaves.)

[Aggie]

I will say that the whole purpose of the bill was to prevent us rushing into integrating foreign workers without a plan. So the bill did its job by forcing this issue. I must however point out that the 72hr limit was exceeded. If it had been a 3-2 vote with arnelos as the deciding vote I would have not worried since he had good reason for the delay. However, 3 other cabinet members were here and didn't act in the required 72hrs. So this veto is invalid. I will not challenge this in court because in my eyes the bill has done its job. But I do worry about the precedent that has been set.
Aggie

[aleion]

I whole hartedly agree with donegeal. RP has nothing to do with Slavery in this GAME!!!!!!!!!!!

[MJW]

I want this to go to court.