REPORT: ILLEGAL MPPs WERE SIGNED DURING CHAT :(

[Panag]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The whole thing, and most of the comments, ridicule the demogame, the Constitution and the Senate. Thanks Arnelos for the report, but this is again a crushing victory of those who just want to play the game.

I hope that one day a demogame will be organized for people giving priority to the democracy.

hi ,

, , maybe some advice from a couple judges would be welcome , ........

have a nice day

[Aro]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The whole thing, and most of the comments, ridicule the demogame, the Constitution and the Senate. Thanks Arnelos for the report, but this is again a crushing victory of those who just want to play the game.

I hope that one day a demogame will be organized for people giving priority to the democracy.

I hope you consider me one of those who just want to play the game...

[Arnelos]

DAVOUT,

You can, of course, go to the Court regarding this issue. I just recommend that if that id done, the court issue be about the decision (which was indeed illegal) rather than the people who made it (as they did so accidentally and are leaving administration anyhow).

So DAVOUT... this was sorta my point with the final paragraph up there about how this is now in the hands of the Senate. Do with it what you wish.

[Kloreep]

I agree that we should let this go; it was unintentional, and no harm was meant. But Ghengis has a good point; this does set a very bad precedent.

Then again, with Arnelos as the next Prez, this shouldn't happen next term.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Then again, with Arnelos as the next Prez, this shouldn't happen next term.

While I am glad that you have such confidence in me and I do intend that nothing like this will happen under my watch, I'm a fallible human being as much as the next guy. The number one thing that could have prevented this was for the voters to read what they are voting on. If that had happened, multiple people present for the chat would have known what a bill passed earlier the same day stipulated in terms of what the administration was permitted to do...

So while I certainly intend to do my best to keep up on senate actions and make sure (as much as I possibly can) that decisions of the senate are respected, a far stronger protection would be having MANY people who made sure they kept up on senate actions and what they mean.

Also... now that we have multiple bills which have passed the Senate, we really need a Senate Clerk. Kloreep?

[Kloreep]

I completely agree people need to read what they vote on.) (I'm about as guilty as most, too, though I did at least check what specific treaties were allowed and with who.) But your recent actions and opinions this chat have made me glad you'll be our new Prez.

Also... now that we have multiple bills which have passed the Senate, we really need a Senate Clerk. Kloreep?

Already done. A Senate Bill archive is the one mandated section of the now-official Directory. Go check it out if you want to review senate bills. (I think I need to go find an embargo bill from a while back now that I'm including withdrawn ones, but that'll have to wait.)

[Aggie]

Sorry I took so long to respond, but I was gone for a day. Now some setting the record straight. I had read the bill and did realize that the Mpp's were not approved. However, considering the declining numbers and interest in the demogame I made a decision to proceed with the necessary MPP, since it was obvious they were needed and would be approved. The only other alternative was to call the chat after less than turn played. This was unacceptable. So I decided to enter the MPP's that were mentioned. At the time I assumed everyone knew the nations mentioned on the MPP bill and these were not them. I apologize to all in the chat who I did not mention it too, ET and Togas particularly. I was wrong in this and should have mentioned it to all. Basically I did not feel the game should be stopped for something whose resolution was common sense and believed all in the chat were of the same mind. So I took the action I did and feel that this is much adou about nothing. For a matter of fact I feel there was no reason to stop the game as early as we did and would have preferred that we completed the 5 turns. However, I do realize many might oppose that decision and aknowledge that it is "technically" illegal what I did. However, though this action did no harm to our nation, I do offer to resign if this action is so horrible(I all fairness the stupidity of assuming we all knew the mpp weren't authorized is my great crime). If the people want me to resign I will, if not we will have a chat on the 18th.
Aggie

[ManicStarSeed]

Solution?

How is this for a solution...
I propose that the senate draft a bill retroactivly granting the powers to enter the MMPs (with russia, japan and _____).

Problem solved

We can also include a wrist slap if desired

Mss

[E_T]

Originally posted by Aggie
Sorry I took so long to respond, but I was gone for a day. Now some setting the record straight. I had read the bill and did realize that the Mpp's were not approved. However, considering the declining numbers and interest in the demogame I made a decision to proceed with the necessary MPP, since it was obvious they were needed and would be approved. The only other alternative was to call the chat after less than turn played. This was unacceptable. So I decided to enter the MPP's that were mentioned. At the time I assumed everyone knew the nations mentioned on the MPP bill and these were not them. I apologize to all in the chat who I did not mention it too, ET and Togas particularly. I was wrong in this and should have mentioned it to all. Basically I did not feel the game should be stopped for something whose resolution was common sense and believed all in the chat were of the same mind. So I took the action I did and feel that this is much adou about nothing. For a matter of fact I feel there was no reason to stop the game as early as we did and would have preferred that we completed the 5 turns. However, I do realize many might oppose that decision and aknowledge that it is "technically" illegal what I did. However, though this action did no harm to our nation, I do offer to resign if this action is so horrible(I all fairness the stupidity of assuming we all knew the mpp weren't authorized is my great crime). If the people want me to resign I will, if not we will have a chat on the 18th.
Aggie

I personally think that you shouldn't Resign, but you should have some form of punishment for this.

If this does not become a case for the court, I suggest the following as punishment for this deed (I will need a member of the Senate to post a bill and ratify it):

1) that you will not be allowed to be a member of the Term 7 Government in any capacity (i.e. vice/deputy/RA), except as a Regular Senator.

2) that you be allowed to be a Deputy/Vice/RA for Term 8, but cannot run for Elected office in that term.

3) That you will have your full priveliges as a member of the Demo Game be restored to you after these next 2 terms.

I think that this is a fair and equitable punishment for what you have done. Especially with the fact that you have spoken up and made your statement about what you have done.

What say you, Senators?

E_T

[Panag]

Originally posted by E_T


I personally think that you shouldn't Resign, but you should have some form of punishment for this.

If this does not become a case for the court, I suggest the following as punishment for this deed (I will need a member of the Senate to post a bill and ratify it):

1) that you will not be allowed to be a member of the Term 7 Government in any capacity (i.e. vice/deputy/RA), except as a Regular Senator.

2) that you be allowed to be a Deputy/Vice/RA for Term 8, but cannot run for Elected office in that term.

3) That you will have your full priveliges as a member of the Demo Game be restored to you after these next 2 terms.

I think that this is a fair and equitable punishment for what you have done. Especially with the fact that you have spoken up and made your statement about what you have done.

What say you, Senators?

E_T

hi ,

, we should look in the COL , punishment should be harsh and swift , but only if convicted in a court of law

actually what kind of punishment is the purpetrator proposing himself , ........

have a nice day

[E_T]

Resignation. I don't think that he should.

E_T

[Panag]

hi ,

would the court please take a look at the matter and decide what to do , ..........

thanks in advance

have a nice day


panag > plans to shoot some judges if they have not talked by monday

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Aggie
I had read the bill and did realize that the Mpp's were not approved.

My, this opens a new can of worms...

I have to say I'm leaning toward the case going to court now. I don't think aggie should resign, and I think ET's proposal is a fair punishment, but this is more serious than simple ignorance, and we need to set a precedent.

[MrWhereItsAt]

/me thinks back to the time, as President, he knowingly went against then FAM Togas' wishes for the timing of a peace with France in favour of an idea of Aggie's.

There was a problem then as I superceded the FAM's powers. Togas was understandably annoyed, and contacted the Judiciary to help sort things out privately. This was done and we got on with the game. IMO, this is what needs to happen again.

That damn document is here to serve us, not the other way around. I really need to put that in my sig, I say it often enough. But, I certainly take the point that some members of our game take some offence to the decisions made. This must be cleared up.

As opposed to in my case where there was less unanimous agreement from those in attendance about the peace with France, here it seems that the MPPs were seen to be a correct decision by the chatters. Think of the only alternative: that the game was stopped, and at least one upstanding citizen here has mentioned how annoying that would have been for him, and doubtless for others who put work in to our grand civilisation. For myself, I would have wanted the game stopped upon Rome's declaration, and I believe the decision to continue was very courageous. BUT it seems no ill has come of it beyond that which we make for ourselves.

So I suggest that we don't get too concerned about this. Yes it was a mistake, and we need to clear up any misunderstandings or failures to communicate where they exist. I hope a simple public or private apology will do, as it did in the case with my mistake some months ago. Let's not penalise anyone here - it looks to be a further disincentive to participate. If you are going to be President you sometimes have to make snap decisions. In this case the decision was discussed and from what I have gathered in this thread so far, agreed to by not an inconsiderable number of chatters. We are reaching a point where all our citizens recognise the best course of action in response to the AI, and the MPPs were judged to have been correct. I commend the strength involved in such a decision, and I hope that any and all apologies can be made so we can get on with things.

[Aro]

You said all, MWIA.