SMC Campain Thread

[E_T]

The Canidates for Supreme Military Commander are:

Civfan01
Meshelic
E_T


THis is the Thread for their Campain.

[E_T]

I had Origially posted this in another Thread, but I'm placeing it here, too.

As I'm running for SMC next term, and If I'm elected, I would be taking office in the middle of the war.

Here's my plan (see attached map - It could be bigger, but I have no FTP space currently because my ISP is changing hands).

THe first assalt will be along the Red Arrows. When I had origianlly made the map, I was thinking of spitting the Assault alont three differet routes, but I've changed it slightly.

THere would be two prongs of the assult, the Center & Right paths. On each section, we have about 2/5th of our assalt forces, with about 1/5th in Reserve (for any Unforseen dificulties).

The Right:
D-Turn: THe Cav advance to Stuttgart through the just established City of Abandonment. The Cannons, Rifle & 1 Settler advance to the hill that is just south of Stuttgart (Blue Circle). The Explorers advance to the positions marked with an X around Berlin and on the route from Nuremburg. The Yellow is for 1 Explorer, Red is for two (RailRoad Tiles) and they Raze. THe Cav will make a couple of spoiling attacks, depending on what is showing at Stuttgart, but will mostly wait for the next turn.

Some of the Cav might be needed to take a slave or two around Berlin, because of ongoing RailRoad PW projects that the Germans are doing.

D-Turn plus 1: THe Cannons & Cav Attack and take the City, Razing it to the Ground. THe Settler at the Blue circle builds a New City (?New Stuttgart?) and any PW that is needed for the advance is built. Any Cannons that weren't used in the assault will go towards Berlin, with escort. Any Explorers that survived will go and do further damage to Berlin's Food surplus. Some of the Cavalry will be sent towards Frankfurt or Hamburg. THe Wounded will recover in this city.


The Center:
D-Turn: THe Cav Advance to the Hill that is SW of Hamburg. THere might be a spoiling attack, but they will fortify and wait. The Cannon & Rifles & 1 Settler will be 2 turns away.

D-Turn plus 1: THe Cannon & Rifle advance to the city. THe Cav move off of the Hill, to join the main group. Their might be some spoiling attacks again, but mostly going after loose defenders.

D-Turn plus 2: Attack and take Hamburg. If the city doesn't have enough war spoils, we bring the Settler in, Abandon the City and Rebuild from scratch. If the City is worth Salvaging, then we keep it and start starving/worker farming it down to 3. Part of the Force goes to Bombard Berlin, other goes toward Frankfurt. We will need to have a fair size force here to remove posible resistors.


By this time, we should have enough from both forces to send a fast strike (Cav only) after Hannover and then Cologne. We also send a Rifle group & worker to the x-ed out tile that is south and east of Hannover, to build a road and provide later logistics.

The combined forces will assult Frankfurt on around D-Turn plus 5 to 7. A turn or two of plain bombardment, coupled with a choice Cav assult should get the city to a softened state and it can be taken then.

Berlin should fall by D-Turn plus 10.

E_T

P.S. No Plan survives first contact with the enemy.

[E_T]

This plan has the Army set to first and For most get a victory, then be used either for the tough cities to crack and/or it will lead the fast assult group that will go for Hannover & Colonge.

It all depends on the outcomes of each assult.

Any Questions?

E_T

[Meshelic]

/edit

[roadcage]

I assume your plan includes being at war with England. Let me explain.

D-Turn plus 1: THe Cannons & Cav Attack and take the City, Razing it to the Ground. THe Settler at the Blue circle builds a New City (?New Stuttgart?) and any PW that is needed for the advance is built.

This will result in FOUNDING a city in English lands. Yes the blue circle is NOW in German territory, but when Stuttgart falls, the borders automatically re-adjust and bingo! The Blue circle is part of England. And the Blue circle is too close to Stuttgart to build before Razing.

FOUNDING a city in another civ's territory will cause that Civ to declare war immediately.

Now I have no problem with this, since we covet the English lands, but do we have the force structure?

please reply
Ssgt roadcage (retired)

[Meshelic]

As I am also running for SMC, I shall as well be entering the office just as the war starts off, that is, should the citizens vote for me.

My plan of actions are as follows:

As you can see by my crude map below, you will see three red circles. These will be seperate Army Groups, labeled from left to right as Army Group 1, 2 and 3.

Army Group 1 shall lead the initial invasion force into into German territory. Depending on the units available, I would hope to have at least 10 Riflemen, 14 Cavalry and all the cannons possibly available. They shall cross the desert and begin their assault on Hannover, then on to fortress Frankfurt. Their first attack pattern is highlighted in RED .

The cannon shall be supported and protected by a small division of Riflemen as they traverse the hills upon their objective of Hamburg to support Army Group 2.

Upon capture of Frankfurt, the remaining forces available shall then make a thrust into Leipzig, with a smaller force moving east to provide support for Army Group 2, mopping up units in their way.

Army Group 2 shall be comprised of around 15-20 Cavalry, and 18 Riflemen. Group 2 shall be the main assault force on the mighty German industrial centers, supported by the cannons from Army Group 1. While the Cavalry and Riflemen cross the mountains, this will give the cannon divisions enough time to catch up with the main assault force, since cannon cannot cross mountains. Hamburg is directly in their path and should fall within a turn or so.

This leads us to the assault on Stuttgart, which will be done mainly with cavalry supported by riflemen. A few turns later, Stuttgart shall also fall, and the entire front shall move into position for attacking Berlin and Leipzig. By then, the German Army should be crushed, save for a few pockets of resistance.

Army Group 3 is the wild card. See how they are off to the east, in English territory? This portion of the invasion plans relies solely on signing a MPP with the English and moving as many Cavalry units quickly up through English territory to prepare to attack Nurembourg, then Berlin, while the German Army is facing our main assault force. If all works well, the Germans will have no idea what has happened and will most definetely not be expecting an attack from that direction.

Also, if we sign an MPP with the English or Aztecs, Army Group 3 can act as support for their armies until they reach their jumpoff point. As soon as Nurembourg falls, Berlin shall be nearly completely surrounded, by Army Group 3's cavalry in the east, Army Group 2's Calvary, Riflemen, and NOW cannon, and Army Group 1 in the west.

Now, if the MPP with Aztecs and England falls through, Army Group 3 shall be divvied up between Army Groups 1 and 2 to bolster their already large invasion force.

Any questions?

[ManicStarSeed]

WOW this IS a campaign, a military one too..

Let me ask all the candidates some questions...

1) How do the candidates feel about trading Replacable Parts?

2) What is more important to your long term plans Replacable Parts or Scientific Method?

3)How do you feel about conscription so that we can have all our cities defended in the event of...
3b) what about a ROP with the Aztecs?

4) We all know that Calvary vs Riflemen is a rough battle, what are your needs (plans) for reinforcments? How do you intend on minimizing losses?

5) Are you planning for total conquest or deblitating?

6) how long are you willing to fight if we get bogged down beyond 20 turns and alliances get canceled

7) Who would you sign alliances with?
7a)MMPs?
7b) ROPs?

8) Any plans to raze any cities?

9)Hypothetical... We have 4 Calvary (2 eliets and 2 vets), 1 eliet rifleman and 2 cannons outside a metro (Say size 18) on a hill defended by at least 5 riflemen in the metro with barracks. Help (2 calvary (1 vet and 1 eliet) and 1 vet rifleman and 2 cannon) is 2 turns away form being effective in battle. Other forces are tied up elswhere for now (at least 3 turns away). They are in communism, conscripting at least 1 a turn. They have RR 4 tiles and 3 roaded tiles attached to the city.
What would you do?

I guess this is enough food for thought. My goal here is understading what the differences between the candidates. I do not want to base my vote on plans, that is what the war academy is for. I want to get to the operating philosophies of the candidates.

Thanks in advance for your anticipated thoughtfullness in these matters.

Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

Oh one more question.

What are your plans for generating the maximum number of leaders?

Thanks...

Ms

[GodKing]

Mss, love your example. Cant wait to hear the resonses.

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed

1) How do the candidates feel about trading Replacable Parts?

Well it is really not up to the SMC to decide upon, that really belongs mostly in the "Foreign Affairs coordinating with the Senate" area.

But I can answer this question for what I would personally do: I would not trade it away, although if I HAD to due for some crazy reason, I would sell it or trade it to the least powerful nations, such as the Iroquois or the Babylonians. I always try to support the smaller, third world nations who cannot stand up to their much more powerful neighbors, especially if we are on good friendly terms with them.

2) What is more important to your long term plans Replacable Parts or Scientific Method?

Definetely Scientific Method. Once it is researched and we finish building ToE, then we can pick up replaceable parts (and maybe espionage too!) too help our science department catch up.

We already have a dominant military, no need to strengthen it to the point beyond necessity...

3)How do you feel about conscription so that we can have all our cities defended in the event of...
3b) what about a ROP with the Aztecs?

Being a member of the Labor Party, who opposes conscription, I do not see Conscripts as a reasonable defense against invasion. They more often than not end up as fodder for whatever invading army wants to kill them. I would only support conscription if the situation was a last-ditch effort to save nation from being conquered, and as I do not see that happening at all, I am not worried about.

(B) Depends on what side they are on, of course. If they are willing to support us in war, then I would support a ROP with Aztec-land.

4) We all know that Calvary vs Riflemen is a rough battle, what are your needs (plans) for reinforcments? How do you intend on minimizing losses?

Working and coordinating with the Domestic Minister (or whatever office is in it's place) and recieving proper notice of unit build queues, when they should be available, and how quickly we can get them to action when we need them.

As for minimizing losses, it's going to take a bit of grit, but to lessen losses we'll have to keep to the high ground and attack them wisely, by leading their units into the open where the defense values are lowered by terrain, or by outright pinning them down and making fodder out of them before they can shoot back.

5) Are you planning for total conquest or deblitating?

Not sure what you mean...though, if the Senate calls for the complete conquest of Germany, than that will be the goal. So far I have only heard of stripping the Germans of their operational capabilities and their technology lead. Personally I do not feel the Germans need to be annihilated, although Bismarck is foolish and anger-prone, and will most likely never cave in to peace after this war, we may have to exterminate him.

6) how long are you willing to fight if we get bogged down beyond 20 turns and alliances get canceled

Again, I feel that is more a question for the Senate, for they have the ability to vote to end a war or start one. The SMC is, in my opinion, simply an operational director of the military units, who is required to fight as long as the Senate decides.

However, this also depends on how well the initial ground campaign has gone in the early stages, ie If we get bogged down in the mountains bordering Germany, or if we at least make it to the interior industrial valleys...

7) Who would you sign alliances with?
7a)MMPs?
7b) ROPs?

Again, I don't believe this is a question for the SMC. It is for the FAM and the Senate. I can answer personally as I have done before.

I would try to find a way into the Rome-Japan Tri-Partite Alliance. They are very strong, although Japan is distantly out of reach for several, several turns. The Aztecs sign look a good contender for an MPP, as well as the Greeks.

A MPP with the English is crucial to my military plans. So I support that as well.

8) Any plans to raze any cities?

Yes, the main German industrial centers, provided we are successful.

9)Hypothetical... We have 4 Calvary (2 eliets and 2 vets), 1 eliet rifleman and 2 cannons outside a metro (Say size 18) on a hill defended by at least 5 riflemen in the metro with barracks. Help (2 calvary (1 vet and 1 eliet) and 1 vet rifleman and 2 cannon) is 2 turns away form being effective in battle. Other forces are tied up elswhere for now (at least 3 turns away). They are in communism, conscripting at least 1 a turn. They have RR 4 tiles and 3 roaded tiles attached to the city.
What would you do?

I would continue to bombard the city until proper reinforcements arrived, although this depends on the hastiness of the whole operation, ie IF there are more cities behind the one we are trying to capture, and whether the opposing armies are on their way or not. Depending on that, I would for sure continue bombardment, mostly wait for the reinforcements, and then plow through their defenses in a blitzkrieg-style assault.


Whew! I hope that's the most of it!

[ManicStarSeed]

Ahh answered like a true politician.

Meshelic
Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions. You answered well. There are no right or wrong answeres here


Candidates:

I know that some of the issues I asked about are not under direct SMC jurisdiction, but I am hopeing to solicit opinions. It's a candidates perspectives that will filter down and dictate specific strategies as related to the field of battle. Also assuming I beat out Banana for FAM, I would not really want to trade military technologies without SMC (and senate) approval. Likewise if we get bogged down(say in turn 19 or 20) but you feel that we can totally wipe them out in 4 or 5 turns, the senate might accept your leadership in that case. As SMC, you become the Expert D'jour.

Here is your chance to express what YOU need as SMC to make this invasion work before we commit our ground forces to this war under the new SMC command. As pointed out earlier, you will take over in the middle of the conflict.

General plans are necessary, but its all in the details. This is why I asked to hear specificly about tatics and opinions.

Again thanks for responding

Mss

[E_T]

Originally posted by roadcage
I assume your plan includes being at war with England. Let me explain.

This will result in FOUNDING a city in English lands. Yes the blue circle is NOW in German territory, but when Stuttgart falls, the borders automatically re-adjust and bingo! The Blue circle is part of England. And the Blue circle is too close to Stuttgart to build before Razing.

FOUNDING a city in another civ's territory will cause that Civ to declare war immediately.

[SNIP]

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

I had totally forgotten that. That means that we'll have to spend on a Temple at Abandonment (the jump off city name) so that the borders will expand. THis will cost 116 Lytons for a one turn Rush. We will have to hold Stuttgart for at least one turn, while we advance our slower forces to Berlin, then we wait for the borders to expand at Abandonment to place the new City. I don't like the Idea of holding onto Stuttgart, with it being so close to Berlin, we will need a large force there to keep it from flipping that one turn.

Good Job Roadcage

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
Let me ask all the candidates some questions...

1) How do the candidates feel about trading Replacable Parts?

I'd hoard it for a couple of turns and then sell it, but personally, I normally go for it after I get Electronics, so I have a fair tech lead anyways and I can afford to wait. With this game, I really couldn't say. I would like to monopolioze it for a while, but that also is up to our FAM and the Senate on what will be done. I've mostly seen postings on techwhoring with only a few on hording them.

It will all depend on our cash flow and were we will stand in the next 10 turns (to the end of this term).

2) What is more important to your long term plans Replacable Parts or Scientific Method?

Both are Equally Important on several fronts. SM gives us Toe and leads to Electronics & Hoover. RP gives us faster Workers and better Military. We hope that we will have both by the end of this term, but that all depends on what we will find during the Chat.

I've made several postings about the importance of SM, but If we can get both techs in the timeframe of shield storing the advance build of ToE at Ghengistown, then I say go for broke and get PR first. With the war looming, it could be of great value at just the right time.

3)How do you feel about conscription so that we can have all our cities defended in the event of...

It partly goes with the above Question, and if we can Draft Infantry. As Current DM, I have to take into account the happiness issues due to the war. But I also don't want to have my hard earned efforts go to waist either. Drafting is Important, but at teh right time and from the right cities

I would examine the Draft on a case by case basis and work with the DM to get them from the right cities.

3b) what about a ROP with the Aztecs?

Personally, I don't think that we will need one with them. I would be of another mind, If we had a much larger standing defenses than we currently have. But I say that that is too much of a risk to take at this time, with anybody. Alliances & MPP's, yes, but no RoP's for now.

4) We all know that Calvary vs Riflemen is a rough battle, what are your needs (plans) for reinforcments? How do you intend on minimizing losses?

Mixing of Bambardment & Cav Attacks. Swift strikes are great, if you have superior forces against a fairly weak defence, but that's not the case here. We will have to take some time to advance our forces and make sure that we present a very weighty blow against our targets.

After the Factories have been completed and the new units come off of the line, we can reexamine the tactics at that time.

5) Are you planning for total conquest or deblitating?

It all depends. I personally think that we only need to take the things that we need (i.e. Wonder, Otto's tech lead, some of his cities) and leave the rest as spoils to be fought over by the other Civs. With the Alliances that we will be forming, why should we waste the effort now for things that we really don't need to have.

When we are a munitions nightmare with the Factories & Hoover we should reexamine further expansion.

While the other Civs are fighting over the remains of Germany, it will be continuing to weaken them. We, on the other hand, will be getting much stronger.

We are at a Crux and I intent to keep us strong through it. If on the otherhand, the Senate wants to continue the war to it's final conclusion, then I can 'keep up the skee' and provide them with Otto's head on a platter.

6) how long are you willing to fight if we get bogged down beyond 20 turns and alliances get canceled

That depends on the Senate and whathappens in the war before I take Office. The future is fluid and Ill go with the flow and see what will happen.

I try to keep the offensive on a steady move forward, though I might have to take a short break while gathering a final blow, if it comes to that. I don't want to leave us weak afterwards.

7) Who would you sign alliances with?
7a)MMPs?
7b) ROPs?

I agree with the choices that FAM Arnelos had singled out for our Grand Alliance. As long as we can keep Otto off guard, we should be o.k.

RoP's, see above.

8) Any plans to raze any cities?

I was think about Razing Stuttgart, but see above for that answer. Other cities, I would take them, see what the spoils are VS the time & cost of starving down & rebuilding. If it's deemed too costly to keep as is, we'll sell off the Improvements and Abandon it. We can start fresh with a new settler and no major problems.

9)Hypothetical... We have 4 Calvary (2 eliets and 2 vets), 1 eliet rifleman and 2 cannons outside a metro (Say size 18) on a hill defended by at least 5 riflemen in the metro with barracks. Help (2 calvary (1 vet and 1 eliet) and 1 vet rifleman and 2 cannon) is 2 turns away form being effective in battle. Other forces are tied up elswhere for now (at least 3 turns away). They are in communism, conscripting at least 1 a turn. They have RR 4 tiles and 3 roaded tiles attached to the city.
What would you do?

First off, RR's can be rebuilt fairly quickly after the city is taken...

I would wait 3 turns and do the following (assuming 3 turns to reenforcement):
Turn 1:
the advancing Cannons that are 2 turns away from effective use, I'd use them to blow away some PW, working on Food first. The cannons at the city, If possible, blow away a nearby Improvement. If not, shell the city. Send the 2 Vet Cav together and take one improvement, the other fortify over him, again working on food. The rest Elite's stay fortified, unless they get a target of oppertunity to take out. That possible target might be within range of the Cannons and mightget shelled first.

Turn 2: the cannons advance (ready to fire next turn) and the Raze pair, go and do it again. The Mixed pair of Cav might also Raze on the way in, but that depends on their avenue of advance and any targets of oppertunity. That cannons that were present, do the same as before.

Turn 3: attack with the forces present and the reenforcements.

This is of course hypothetical, but this force is almost enough to take the city, but most likely not succed without a 2 fold reenforcement (i.e., the forces that will be three turns away should have atleast 6 more Cav and maybe 2 more Cannon with 2 Rifle)

Hope that answers your questions.

E_T

[Arnelos]

ANYONE INTERESTED IN SIGNING RoPs:

You will need to obtain Senate approval for these agreements before the war starts, obviously. That requires AT LEAST THREE DAYS because that's the polling requirement in the constitution (and Senate approval via a senate bill is required before establishing a RoP).

If you guys really want/need a RoP, you better let me know which ones you want me to request of the Senate now so I can make that request and some senator can make up a bill to give the FAM the approval (the FAM who executes that approval may very well be MSS rather than me, but I probably - given the timing - will have to be the one to ask for the approval).

Lemme know...

[E_T]

Please, no RoP's

E_T

[ManicStarSeed]

Thanks E_T.


Arnelos:
Just feeling it, as now is the time, since I am a senator and can propoase bills. I do not think I will start a bill regarding a ROP with the aztecs. Lets not give a reason for our new SMC to be asking for conscripts shall we.

Mss