Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

FAM Pre-Bill Discussion: "Grand Coalition" -vs- Germany

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • FAM Pre-Bill Discussion: "Grand Coalition" -vs- Germany

    FAM Pre-Bill Discussion: "Grand Coalition" -vs- Germany

    The current plan is to declare war on Germany when our peace agreement comes up for renegotiation in 10 turns.

    All other peace treaties come up for renegotiation on the same turn except for England (which will be the turn after).

    Here is the plan I would like interested members of the Senate to discuss, alter if desired, and prepare for a Senate Bill which would pass before the date of invasion (in about a week and a half real time, 10 turns game time). This is due to the fact that the NewCon requires Senate approval for any MPP, Military Alliance, or Trade Embargo requested by the Foreign Affairs Minister (FAM). So here's the plan I would like us to discuss:

    THE PLAN: A GRAND COALITION TO RID THE WORLD OF THE GERMAN MENACE
    (aka The "Divide-And-Conquer" Plan, as I previously referred to it)

    - Sign MPPs with preferably Greece, England, and the Aztecs 1 turn before war or on the same turn as war is declared (just before declaration). These can be packaged with the renegotiation of peace treaties if done on the same turn as the war declaration.

    - Sign military alliances against Germany with as many other nations as possible immediately after war is declared. Rome, Japan, India, Russia, Babylon, and Persia are all critical along with Greece, England, and the Aztecs if they didn't agree to MPPs. Zululand, China, and the Iroquois can be done without, but we should go ahead and sign with them just to prevent Germany from having them declare on us.

    - Sign trade embargoes against Germany with all parties willing to do so (which would be everyone who declared war on Germany for sure, probably some who would be unwilling in addition).

    PROS:

    - Given that the current military technologies given a decisive advantage to the defender (cavalry -vs- riflemen = high offensive casualties), overwhelming force may be just the trick to prevent this from turning into a stalemate that simply saps our resources.
    - Completely isolates Germany
    - Interdicts Germany's ability to research technology and techwhore it for income and to prevent us from techwhoring at the very start of the war
    - ALL nations, not just our own, will be undergoing the same impacts of war weariness.
    - Significantly reduce the likelyhood that Germany will be unable to use its enormous financial and technological assets to induce our many enemies into declaring war against us
    - Germany's defeat as a the technological leader is quite assured. Even if Greece, the Aztecs, or England gained a little territory out of the war, we are likely to gain more and become (finally!) the undisputed leader in technology.
    - The common agreements and the common war may give us a temporary relations boost which we can exploit for better trade deals with other AI civilizations

    CONS:

    - Forces us to fight for 20 turns or until Germany is destroyed (thankfully, however, everyone else will be under the same war weariness)

    OTHER IMPLICATIONS:

    - Our goal must be to annihilate Germany, not simply hurt it. As another aptly put it: "Wipe them out. All of them" Within the context of our "Grand Coalition", the goal will be to remove the German menace from the world (as suggested in this plan's title)

    - While less force may be required to accomplish the goal of removing Germany as a technological power, we may have to be swift in taking German cities (especially Berlin with its wonder(s)) if we want to get most of them. The SMC should take this into account.

    ------------------------------------

    AFTERMATH

    After this plan's execution, we should be the undisputed leader in technological research, our cities by that point should be mostly industrialized and our production will be able to stomp just about anyone into the ground.

    The arguments of whether this should be the last great war or whether we should go after others (Zululand, England, Greece, etc.) can be made after this war with Germany is over. The path from the end of this war will be up to those leaders who will be around to guide us then. My concern is to getting to having final victory within sight, since it has not yet come into our grasp, despite the claims of some...

    ------------------------------------

    So, please, begin. We need to have a Senate Bill passed on the subject before the war starts. We have roughly a week and a half to do so.
    Long-time poster on Apolyton and WePlayCiv
    Consul of Apolyton from the 1st Civ3 Inter-Site Democracy Game (ISDG)
    7th President of Apolyton in the 1st Civ3 Democracy Game

  • #2
    I suggest to leave Engand out of the "Deal". We want to go after them soon, too. If we can get them to Ally with Germany, then we can have two things happen.

    1) We can work on them also at the same time
    2) We get the added benifit of them declareing on us when it comes to War Weariness factors

    England has two Wonders to Annex, MV in Nottingham & NU in London.

    E_T
    Come and see me at WePlayCiv
    Worship the Comic here!
    Term IV DFM for Trade, Term V CP & Term VI DM, Term VII SMC of Apolytonia - SPDGI, Minister of the Interior of the PTW InterSite Demo Game

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by E_T
      I suggest to leave Engand out of the "Deal". We want to go after them soon, too.
      Do we?

      I know the war with Germany has a sizable Senate majority behind it, but I'm not at all sure that war with Germany AND England garners the same Senate support (using that unofficial war poll way back when as the indicator).

      SECOND:

      And if our goal IS to take on England next, can we not wait until Germany has already been vanquished (at which point all the military alliances go -POOF!-). If that's the plan, we might not sign an MPP with England, prefering to do a military alliance instead. That way we take them down one-at-a-time rather than trying to take on two at once. As I've said before, "Divide-And-Conquer"
      Long-time poster on Apolyton and WePlayCiv
      Consul of Apolyton from the 1st Civ3 Inter-Site Democracy Game (ISDG)
      7th President of Apolyton in the 1st Civ3 Democracy Game

      Comment


      • #4
        on German invasion and conquest.

        English participation in the alliance
        Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
        Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

        Comment


        • #5
          I completely agree with FAM Arnelos on this issue. England must participate in this war, and we can easily take them out later if we wish.
          "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
          And the truth isn't what you want to see,
          Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
          - Phantom of the Opera

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Shiber
            I completely agree with FAM Arnelos on this issue. England must participate in this war, and we can easily take them out later if we wish.
            Agreed. The germans could easily carry England to their side, and this will create unnecessary problems to us... at this point.
            Later...
            RIAA sucks
            The Optimistas
            I'm a political cartoonist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shiber
              I completely agree with FAM Arnelos on this issue. England must participate in this war, and we can easily take them out later if we wish.
              I also agree. We do not need Liz harassing our flank whilst we fight Germany.

              Comment


              • #8
                Fully agree with the destruction of Germany (even if it takes more than 20 turns...) and can see both sides of having England with us or not as I would like us to control ALL of abananaba major. They can wait, or we can take them both, doesn't matter.
                One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                You're wierd. - Krill

                An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

                Comment


                • #9
                  What UnOrtho said.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Agreed, leave England out of the MPP, but sign an alliance against Germany with them.

                    Also, let's add Embargos against Zulu and China, either in this bill or a seperate one.
                    1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                    Templar Science Minister
                    AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree that we should sign MPPs with the Aztecs and Greeks. These agreements FORCE them to be at war with Germany for the duration of our war with them. As for England, a simple alliance would suffice to keep our eastern border clear.

                      Should we be concerned about the possibility of Rome or Russia being drawn in by Germany? Germany has the funds and the bargaining chips to bring most any nation into the war.

                      During the duration of this war we should consider using Wartime Mobilization.

                      --Togas
                      Greatest Moments in ISDG chat:"(12/02/2003) <notyoueither> the moon is blue. hell is cold. quote me, but i agree with ET. "
                      Member of the Mercenary Team in the Civ 4 Team Democracy Game.
                      Former Consul for the Apolyton C3C Intersite Tournament Team.
                      Heir to the lost throne of Spain of the Roleplay Team in the PTW Democracy Multiplayer Team Game.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is a thought.

                        How powerful is England in relation to Germany? There are several things to consider.

                        England, Aztec and Greece border Germany. Germany will be busy with all of them. Their forces will be spread out but Otto can not resist a weak foe. He will conquer the weakest cities. It is even reasonable to assume that Germany will take one or two cities from england an the other boarder civs. We should target those cities for conquest. Look to Germany to launder the cities.

                        Let Germany take what is left of the aztec occupied american cities. They will be assimilated.

                        Watch for german occupation in england. We will liberate them then assimilate them.

                        We can still weaken our future foes with this war. We just have to let germany take them first.

                        Mss
                        Remember.... pillage first then burn.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
                          Here is a thought.

                          How powerful is England in relation to Germany? There are several things to consider.

                          England, Aztec and Greece border Germany. Germany will be busy with all of them. Their forces will be spread out but Otto can not resist a weak foe. He will conquer the weakest cities. It is even reasonable to assume that Germany will take one or two cities from england an the other boarder civs. We should target those cities for conquest. Look to Germany to launder the cities.

                          Let Germany take what is left of the aztec occupied american cities. They will be assimilated.

                          Watch for german occupation in england. We will liberate them then assimilate them.

                          We can still weaken our future foes with this war. We just have to let germany take them first.

                          Mss
                          Now someone is thinking along the right lines
                          Long-time poster on Apolyton and WePlayCiv
                          Consul of Apolyton from the 1st Civ3 Inter-Site Democracy Game (ISDG)
                          7th President of Apolyton in the 1st Civ3 Democracy Game

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We covet England's lands and neither want nor need England's assistance in the war on Germany.
                            I used to be a builder. That was before I played Civ III

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We definitely shouldn't sign an MPP with England.

                              An alliance is another matter. I'd say we should sign all the other agreements we want, then see what England's price is. If they want more than one or two hundred gold or so, leave them out.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X