Plans for Next Turnchat (Nov. 27)

[Togas]

We will hold the next turnchat on November 27th at 9:00pm EST. Unfortunately, this is the only time I can do it as I work during the afternoon.

However, I would like for us to get most of the work done, perhaps even a few turns, prior to Wednesday.

I ask the DM to handle any city changes and worker orders first, then post the save in this thread, and post a brief summary of changes done.

Next, the FAM should check to see if any deals/sales can be done, make the deals, post the save to this thread and then post a brief summary of changes done.

Lastly, the SMC should make any movement changes and upgrades that are required, post save, and post brief report.

I will then review the save, make any budget or science changes, do any other misc. orders and then end the turn. We'll move to the next turn, I'll post the save and a summary, and the process continues ... unless something unusual occurs.

Any questions during this process about orders that require another minister to confirm/get permission should be done via post to this thread. I will also post a tentative budget at the beginning of each turn.

Prior to posting the first budget I need to know if there are any special requests. Post here or send via PM. Either is fine.

This should allow us to shave off a few turns from the late turnchat on Wednesday.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Togas,

I leave for my trip at 12 p.m. EST on Wednesday, so I obviously can't make 9 p.m. (either EST or GMT). If we do that turnthreading of the first turn, I can participate in that, but I'll leave orders for the rest of the chat period.

Please just tell me how many turns you plan on doing and I'll write orders to cover that period (especially to include any renegotiations, etc.).

As for a deputy, I'll have to see who's available (if not, you, as Acting President, I believe are FULLY CAPABLE of standing in for FAM while I'm gone )

Thanks.

[Togas]

Let's plan to get 5 turns done between now and Wednesday's turnchat. If we happen to get 4-5 done prior to the chat, we'll extend it to 8 turns, but probably no more than that.

--Togas

p.s. Deputy Ministers would help if anyone feels they may not be able to make it for the full time.

[E_T]

My budget requests are in this thread. I can get the PW stuff done fairly quickly, but the CP stuff will take much longer.

Please do your FAM & SMC stuff ASAP and post. I'll try to get the PW stuff posted first and work the CP stuff from your saves. But to go anywhere beyond this turn will require budget determination for the throughput rushes. The slider can be turned down on this turn.

If we have a cross posted save, it's easier for you all to redo them from my saves, than it would be for me from yours.

E_T

[E_T]

1070AB PW done

This is what was done in this save:

Turn 0 (1070AB)

1 NATIVE - at Tarsus #16 - move se to Tarsus #15 & mine the Irrigated tile {2 turns}

1 NATIVE - at Muncie #19 - move to forest at Muncie #10 {will build road next turn}

3 SLAVES - at Geofront #14 - Road {not done yet}

3 NATIVES & 3 SLAVES - at Geofront #2 - Move to Jungle at #5 and clear {not done yet}

11 NATIVES - at Port of Malignance #3 - move 2NW to forest at Willsbury #10 {arrives on turn 2, will build road}, Move the other 9 S to PoM #13{will clear & build}

3 SLAVES & 1 NATIVES - at Willsbury #15 - Clear Jungle {done}

1 NATIVE - at Gaia #18 - move to Del Monte #6 {will road next turn}

3 NATIVES - at Gaia #15 - Move to #13 {will mine & road next turn}

1 NATIVE - at San Cortez #2 - Mine Hill {4 turns}

9 NATIVES - at Seeburg #16 - Clear (8) & Road (1) {complete}

1 NATIVE - at Seeburg #15 - Move 3 North {will move E next turn}

8 NATIVES - at Timeline #9 - Clear Jungle (5-done, releases 3) & Road (1-done) - move others SW {will start on jungle next turn}

3 NATIVES - at Timeline #18 - Road (1) & Mine (2) {complete}

3 NATIVES & 6 SLAVES - at Opiadom #8 - 2 SLAVES Road {done} -

2 SLAVES - at Opiadom #19 - Build Road {complete}

8 SLAVES - at Rheims #20 - Build Road (2-done) - Mine (4-done) - move last 2 W to Macross City #11 & Mine {2 turns}

1 NATIVE - at Rheims #16 - move to forest in Port Rouge #18 {will start on road next turn}

4 SLAVES - at Heliopolis #7 - road (2-done) & Irrigate (2-not complete)

5 NATIVES - at PoWIA #10 - First build road (3-done) then clear Jungle {not done yet}

5 SLAVES - at Heliopolis #17 - move S to PoWIA #10 and Clear Jungle {not done yet}

2 SLAVES & 2 NATIVES - at Heliopolis #16 - move 1 SLAVE to # 17 & Irrigate {complete}, move others to PoWIA #10 and Clear Jungle (done- frees 3 SLAVES) - move 2 SLAVES W,NW to #20 {will road next turn} - move last SLAVE W,SW to #8 {will road next turn}

3 NATIVES - at Solace #14 - Move N to #4 {will road & mine next turn}

1 NATIVE - at Whelsh Coast #19 - mine hills {done}, releases 3 others - road hills (2-done) - Move last to #11 {will road next turn}

1 NATIVE - at Whelsh Coast #3 - Mine Hills {2 turns}

2 NATIVES - at Whelsh Coast #10 - Move to hills at #3 (will road next turn)

1 NATIVE - that is south 2 from Shiberport, in Forest - move NW {will road next turn}

Here is the save, I still have to start on CP stuff, so do your stuff and I'll work on your saves.

E_T

[Arnelos]

ok, I just got home. I'll work on my stuff for 1070 this evening and post it.

[Arnelos]

grrr... I ended up having to go out most of the evening and what time I've spent since I got back was on PTW-demogame stuff (sorry 'bout that....). Go ahead and skip FAM for now on the 1070 turn and get back to me after SMC and other orders if that's easier. I should be able to make alterations to the save either tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon.

I'll also be leaving an extensive report I've been working on concerning all deals that should come up for renegotiation during the turnchat period as well as orders for the turnchat period (because I'm leaving around noon on Wednesday and won't be back until late Sunday evening ).

[E_T]

Turn 0 (1070AB) Build/Queue changes

Summery:
Inserted 10 Explores to various Q's
Changed Musketmen in Q's to Riflemen, Cavalry or Cannon, depending on city.
Switched a couple of Items
Added several Items.

I'll try to get a full report of the changes, but this will suffice for now. I still have to do the WF changes, but those will be easy to implement with another save. THe Q items take a while to implement.

Here is the new Save

E_T

[Arnelos]

Ok, I'm working on the save right now (renegotiations and such for this turn). I'll post it along with my report and orders when I'm done.

[Arnelos]

Ok, FAM orders for 1070 A.D. have been completed and the save is posted with this post.

Here is a summary of the changes made:

Let the Incense deal with Rome ride (they have their own source of Incense)
Let the Dyes deal with Greece ride (current deal is for 19LPT and best available renegotiation is only 3LPT)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Rome: They pay us 3 LPT + 6 L
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Greece: They pay us 6L + WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Aztecs: They pay us 4L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Germany: They pay us 6LPT + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Russia: They pay us 10L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Babylon: They pay us 7LPT + 12L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Persia: They pay us 3L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with India: They pay us 14L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Japan: They pay us 1LPT + 2L
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Zululand: They pay us 3LPT + 10L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Iroquois: They pay us 8LPT + 5L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with China: They give us their WM (they are broke)
Demanded that Zulu forces leave our territory... Shaka: "Zulu never stay where they are not wanted. We're gone." (galley still in our territory - check for compliance next turn)

I'll now post my orders for the full chat in a second post and I'll post a Foreign Relations Report for 1070 A.D. as a seperate thread.

I'm leaving at noon EST tomorrow, so that's probably the last from me on FAM stuff until late Sunday evening.

Hope the turnchat goes well

[Arnelos]

FAM ORDERS - 1070 A.D. TURNCHAT

Turn -1 (1070 A.D.) - completed:

(NOTE: Orders for this turn have already been executed)

Let the Incense deal with Rome ride (they have their own source of Incense)
Let the Dyes deal with Greece ride (current deal is for 19LPT and best available renegotiation is only 3LPT)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Rome: They pay us 3 LPT + 6 L
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Greece: They pay us 6L + WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Aztecs: They pay us 4L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Germany: They pay us 6LPT + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Russia: They pay us 10L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Babylon: They pay us 7LPT + 12L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Persia: They pay us 3L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with India: They pay us 14L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Japan: They pay us 1LPT + 2L
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Zululand: They pay us 3LPT + 10L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with Iroquois: They pay us 8LPT + 5L + their WM (they are now broke)
Renegotiated Peace Treaty with China: They give us their WM (they are broke)
Demanded that Zulu forces leave our territory... Shaka: "Zulu never stay where they are not wanted. We're gone." (galley still in our territory - check for compliance next turn)

Turn 0 (1080 A.D.):

Renegotiate our peace deal with England for maximum profit.

Check for compliance of our demand that Zulu galley depart our territory. If they have not left (or if additional Zulu galley(s) have entered our territory), demand their departure again.

Turn 1 (1090 A.D.):

Our sale of spices to England ends. Either get at least 20LPT from England (or another civ in need of spices) for our spices OR (if that fails) save the spices for the 1110 A.D. turn (when we can use them with Sanitation to discount techbuys). Please actually check to see how much the spices discount techbuys (it should be around 25LPT - 30LPT) and compare to the maximum sale price of spices this turn. The sale price this turn will almost certainly be lower, but go ahead and sell the spices this turn if the amount of money made in 2 turns on the deal would exceed or be "close enough" (determination of President and FAM rep) to the difference in money between the discount value and the sale value (because if we hold on to the spices rather than selling them, we're missing out on those 2 turns of income from the potential deal).

The 6LPT income from our techsale to Babylon ends this turn. This may mean that Babylon now has extra income to spare. Check to see if we can sell them saltpeter and/or wines (both of which they need) for any spare cash (check minimum conditions below, however). If that deal can't work out (deal for luxes/resources preferred), sell them a tech if it meets the conditions below.

Additionally, the 17LPT income from our techsale to Persia will also end this turn. Either sell them Iron (they need it) and/or any other luxes/resources to get as much spare cash from them as possible. Alternatively, if we can sell them one or more technologies and get the full value of their extra cash w/o the sale of luxes/resources the go for it. I leave this deal up the discretion of any FAM rep and/or the President (just get the best deal we can).

Turn 2 (1100 A.D.):

See if you can let the Incense deal with Greece ride for 1 turn (unless you can get at least 20LPT for the Incense). If you let it ride to the next turn, use the Incense along with Sanitation to discount any purchases of Steam Power, Communism, and/or other technology from Greece.

Renegotiate our Dyes deal with Babylon if we can get it above the current 2LPT. If not, let it ride. If they end the deal, see if we can get a new deal according to the conditions below.

Turn 3 (1110 A.D.?):

Spices deal with Germany is up for renegotiation. Either use the spices to discount techbuys from Germany (if we buy from Germany) or renegotiate the deal. If we can't get higher than the current deal of 7LPT, let it ride.

We should now have Sanitation. Use that tech, along with any available luxes or resources, to discount the price of Steam Power, Communism, or other technologies. The budget for FAM purchases on techs is at the discretion of the President.

Turn 4 (1120 A.D.?):

-nothing planned-

Turn 5 (1130 A.D.?):

Renegotiate our Iron deal with Babylon if we can get it above the current 4LPT. If not, let it ride. If they end the deal, see if we can get a new deal according to the conditions below.

Turn 6 (1140 A.D.?):

The 4LPT income from our techsale to Babylon ends this turn. This may mean that Babylon now has extra income to spare. Check to see if we can sell them saltpeter and/or wines (both of which they need) for any spare cash (check minimum conditions below, however). If that deal can't work out (deal for luxes/resources preferred), sell them a tech if it meets the conditions below.

Selling Dye:
We currently have 0 extra, 1 if Greece cancels our deal
Sell Dye to the each Civ IF they offer at least the following amount:
Greece: We're attempting to let the current 19 LPT deal ride. If it lapses, only re-sign for 20 LPT or higher (or to discount a techbuy)
Do NOT sell Dye to Persia or China unless they can meet the 20LPT minimum (and even if they CAN meet that minimum, try to sell them technology instead of Dye, reserving this last Dye for Greece)
HOWEVER...
Once the last dye (near GeoFront) is connected by road... Try to sell it to either Persia or China (likely Persia) for maximum profit. Anything 4LPT or higher is acceptable (otherwise, wait until the deal gets better... with so many techsale deals to Persia ending, they should get extra money within 1-2 turns if they can't afford it on the turn our road to the last dye is complete).

Selling Wines:
We currently have 1 extra
Babylon: 2 LPT minimum
Wines are currently worth just over 92 lytons to Babylon. Their treasury is being emptied out due to our peace renegotiation, but they could gain extra funds in the near future (as the LPT deals they pay us for techsales end). As those LPT deals end, see if we can sell them this lux for the given minimum or higher.

Selling Incense:
We currently have 0 extra, 1 if Rome cancels our deal
Persia: 3 LPT minimum
Zululand: 3 LPT minimum
Iroquois: 3 LPT minimum
Obviously, only sell if Rome (which now has its own source), cancels our deal. Keep in mind that several LPT techsale deals with Persia will be ending over the course of the chat, so waiting a turn or two (if necessary) so the Persians have more money may be beneficial for maximizing profit on our last Incense (assuming no-one else sells it to them first). I leave this matter up the discretion of any FAM rep and/or the President.

Selling Spices:
We currently have 0 extra, 1 if England cancels our deal
Try to hold on to the spice and use it to either make a deal with England or to discount a techbuy with England (as covered in the Turn 1 orders above). Do NOT sell to a civilization other than England unless they will give us at least 20 LPT for it.

Selling Horses:
We currently have 3 extra
no-one needs them

Selling Iron:
We currently have 2 extra, 3 if Babylon cancels our deal
Persia: 5 LPT minimum
As with Wines and potentially Incense, several LPT techsale deals with Persia will be ending throughout the chat. Check to see if they can meet this minimum when those deals end. Check with the per-turn orders to see my preferences on techsales -vs- lux/resource deals with Persia.
Instructions on the renegotation of the Iron deal with Babylon are found in the Turn 5 orders.

Selling Saltpeter:
We currently have 1 extra
Babylon: 5 LPT minimum
Check with the per-turn orders concerning Babylon on optimal timing for deals.

Trading Worldmaps:
We are gaining a number of WM's due to peace renegotiations in 1070 A.D., but unfortunately the same peace renegotiations will empty out the treasuries of most of the other civs. The wealthier civs will still have plenty of money to buy those maps, however (Rome, Japan, and England).

As for the rest of the chat, mapwhoring will be at the discretion of any FAM rep and/or the President.

NOTE: Buying WM's needs Presidential approval, but selling them apparently does not.

Selling Technology:
Middle Age Techs: 75 L minimum
Industrial Age Tech: 200 L minimum

Buying Technology:
As covered in the per-turn orders, hold off on techbuys until we already have Sanitation (likely in 1110 A.D.). The monetary expenditures are at the discretion of the President. Specific guidelines for techbuys can be found in the per-turn orders. Any FAM rep and/or the President has discretionary power on whether to make techbuys during this turnchat.

Treaties:
RoPs: Do NOT sign them (requires Presidential approval even if considered)
Military Alliances, Trade Embargoes, and Mutual Protection Pacts would be illegal to sign because we have not obtained Senate approval. So don't sign them. Once we get closer to war with Germany, we'll see about potentially asking for Senate approval of any MPPs, military alliances, or other agreements we'd want.

Demands
Do not give into ANY demands. If the refusal to give into a demand results in a civ declaring war on us, end the turnchat.

Demand that the following Civs Stay Out of our Territory:
Germany, Greece, England, Russia
For all other civs, only demand exit if their "invading" units possess an immediate threat (please consult with the SMC or SMC rep for this determination if they are present)
SPECIAL NOTE: The 3 Zulu galleys off of Uber Isle HAVE been determined by the SMC, President, and FAM to be a potential threat. Should any of them be in our territory during any turn, demand for their departure.

All matters left unattended in these orders can be altered by the FAM or FAM rep during the turnchat. If neither of those is present, such matters may be considered at the discretion of the President. If an order above was obviously written under a drastically different understanding of the situation than changes in the turnchat have brought about, then alterations are permitted to be made by the FAM, the FAM rep, or the President (in that order). If any change is made in the above orders, it must be recorded and a written justificiation provided to the FAM for the orders change (if the FAM wasn't the one who made the change ). The FAM may (and indeed, given the situation, may be required to) post the justification on the boards for public review if it was not already posted with the turnchat report.

[Arnelos]

As for FAM deputy during the turnchat. Nimitz (if he is present and legally permitted) can serve as my deputy for this chat (I don't think he can make it, but in case he can and is legally permitted to represent me in the turnchat, he hereby has my permission to do so).

If that's not workable, Togas is empowered to exercise the powers of the FAM office in accordance with my orders and events as they take place (the specific nature of this is covered in the last paragraph of my orders).

I recommend that E_T, if he is present and not already too busy with doing DM stuff, be consulted on trade deals and tech deals as well (given his experience in the area of researching those down and a copy v1.21). I trust that if you need any more help (and additional citizens are present), you can probably find it

That's all

[E_T]

Originally posted by Arnelos
FAM ORDERS - 1070 A.D. TURNCHAT


Turn 3 (1110 A.D.?):

Spices deal with Germany is up for renegotiation. Either use the spices to discount techbuys from Germany (if we buy from Germany) or renegotiate the deal. If we can't get higher than the current deal of 7LPT, let it ride.

Shouldn't we start to prep Germany for war by dropping the rest of the Turn based Items (after this current turn)?

E_T

[Togas]

I am going to attempt to leave work early tomorrow as Thursday is a holiday here and most offices are closing early. If I can get out of the office prior to 5:00pm I will post a message here and notify everyone via PM. If so, I would like to start earlier than 9pm EST.

I will keep you informed. Please watch this thread tomorrow for special updates.

... oh and PM me if moving the turnchat time UP a few hours is would make it difficult for you to attend.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

E_T,

Neither the SMC nor the President has given me a solid idea on the TIMING for any war with Germany. Whenever I ask, I'm told that war is safely more than 20 turns away, so I keep signing agreements with Germany. Once we (1) a solid war plan, (2) a solid complete construction timeline to meet the needs of that warplan, and the SMC can give me a DATE for the war to start, then I (in conjunction with any interested members of the Senate) can consider whether it is wise to continue making agreements with Germany.

Considering that you, as Domestic Minister, have been doing a very good job of attempting to accomodate what war planning that has been taking place (primarily in the Senate), the problem right now is the absense of the SMC and an official war plan with a timeline that the FAM can use to do the proper geopolitical manuevering.

Thus, I recommend that we hold some form of Cabinet Meeting (via mIRC chat?) to discuss the issue of war plans and timing for the war (should the Senate approve of eventually going to war...). Obviously, we'll need to make sure our SMC (who seems to have already left for his family vacation - I leave tomorrow) shows up