OFFICIAL: Science Slider Poll - READ FIRST POSTS BEFORE VOTING (for real!)

[roadcage]

ToG and Mag are both required for era advancement. We can study no others. Both are held by all of the big 4. We can either buy or fight. Research is not a viable alternative (yet).

[Arnelos]

Unortho,

Regarding the construction of wonders, we now have a GL. The poll conducting on what to do with him was passed clearly in favor of making our first army, however.

[Aggie]

I call upon ALL people to vote for 0% it is just iresponsible to throw away money like this.
Aggie

[E_T]

How about a compramise solution to the immeadiate issue. Two Luxuries come up for renegotiation in 4 turns, with Germany. We Set the slider to 60% for the next 4 turns and get Theory. FAM Togas can then use the Luxes and a newly collected WM to get Magnetism at a discount. Then we are in the Industruial Age and starting on the First Industrial techs (what ever is decided by Thud).

In the 4 turns that we have between then and now, we work on upgrading our Military. We can have almost all of our Offensive forces upgraded in that time and the last 3 spearmen & 1 pikemen, too. We have 1171 in Treasury and 347LPT (at 60%) income. Every turn, upgrade 2 WC's and Spearmen/Pikemen at 320 (WC's & Spear) and 300 for the WC/Pike. That will get all of our WC's upgraded except for 1 (on Uber Island and doesn't need it unless facing an emergency). THat would also leave just 11 pikemen to be upgraded and some could be done at that time. We will still be having extra money added to our Treasury.

I won't have any big outlays planned until turn 5 and after (first would be 116L for Site 3 City Temple) and some of them could be delayed even further.

Then we can truly see what the next age would cost us and decide at that point, during chat, to have it set at whatever we will need to set it at. And after the GA is done, we can fully reexamine this full issue again.

E_T

[Aggie]

The problem ET is that I see nothing gained by moving the slider up except that we keep money from the AI, but we are more efficient at spending so even with the advantage it has we win. The only other thing is that it will let us do our our research. But unless there is real gain I see no purpose to spend the money towards science.
Aggie

[Sheik]

0%

Why research Theory of Gravity when you can buy it for less? Unless we are going to research something no one has there is no point wasting the money to research. Shiber is right, we need to invest and not be wasting our money on useless research.

[E_T]

Originally posted by Aggie
The problem ET is that I see nothing gained by moving the slider up except that we keep money from the AI, but we are more efficient at spending so even with the advantage it has we win. The only other thing is that it will let us do our our research. But unless there is real gain I see no purpose to spend the money towards science.
Aggie

So, lets say that over the next 20 turns, we buy 8 techs from the AI (3 now - Theory, Mag & Nat and that with our extra money, they can research at 4 turns per tech and gets 5 new techs). Assuming 1300L for each (average), thats 10,400 over the 20 turns that we would have to pay or 520 LPT equivalant. At that point, we HAVE to keep the slider at 0% to pay the AI, because we will have exhausted our Ready cash and will be paying some significant LPT to them.

WE NEED TO WEAN OURSELVES FROM THE AI and now is the time to really start. We can even find some form of blend of some of our own research and buying some to keep up, but we need to make this kind of decision in the next few gameplayes. So we might be behind at first, we'll catch up and surpass.

The compramise that I had proposed for getting theory in 4 turns via research and buying Mag with 2 Luxes from Germany (when renegotiated in 4 tuns, same time) can at least get us into the Industrual age (at a greatly reduced cost) and we can then reexamine our options then and after the GA is over in 6 turns.

E_T

[Shiber]

I propose a runoff between 0% and 60%.

[joncnunn]

0% until it becomes cheaper to resarch ourselves compared to buying.

That's not going to be the case until we enter the Industrial Age.

[Hot Mustard]

I'm in shock here people! I can't believe this poll is tied and so many people just don't get it.

We MUST have scientific independance from the AI.

If we continue to buy from the AI and do not produce any research ourselves, we hurt ourselves and help them. More money for them means:
- more improvements
- more units
- greater ease of continued research
- ability to buy things from other AI civs

Stop looking at the numbers people - and start thinking about the power we are handing the AI every time we buy tech.

[joncnunn]

But it costs us a 50% premimum to research the techs compared to just buying them.

The deals can be in the form of GPT so that they don't get a mass infusion of cash.

[Arnelos]

Man... I'm really not looking forward to breaking the tie with a decision one way or the other

That said, I'll just do it like I had to during the turnchat if necessary. I think the poll probably will not END in the tie ( ), but if it does, so be it.

[Shiber]

Again I propose a runoff between 0% and 60%.

[E_T]

We have still to here from FAM Togas about his thoughts on this issue, as he will be the one to set up any tech trades, either completely buying them or with my compromise solution.

E_T

[Shiber]

E_T, setting the slider at 60% and buying Mag. is in no way a compromise.