Poll (Official) Declaration of War on France

[Thud]

easily carried it to victory? I'm not sure. All I can say is that it's lucky the CoL was really vague about this, and didn't require 2\3rds.

[realpolitic]

Goals in the War

Since the poll currently says 63% wants war, it seems the average (50th percentile), probably wants a limited war.

The most efficent war would get us saltpeter and iron for us & sale and safe borders, then we could focus on building city improvements.

A GA might be a better idea after FP and Democracy.

[=OttomusCeasar=]

Originally posted by Aggie
Ok in response to all, I have after much consultation and analyzis decided that I will limit this war to the eastern and se cities of france. This seems to be the center of gravity of the people views so I'll take support it. Additionally I have been informed by another minister that the extra cities would adversly affect our corruption. So I will support a limited war, also this will allow us to extort GPT from france and in the future perhaps we can use them as a GL factory.
Aggie

Arggh! I want a war with France so badly, but this statement means if I vote yes I will be agreeing to a limited war.

I'm hoping this is removed soon so I can vote yes.

[mrmitchell]

We can take all of France relatively easily, including Joan's head. But, we need to dedicate more immediately to our own land. This is why I support a short, quick war with France, and it ends there unless we're one spearman away from getting a city. Quickly, before they get musakteers!
(Also the GA sounds nice.)

[CiverDan]

I have a couple of questions:

1. what about defense for currently undefended cities. I know about the ERFF in Contagion, but is that by itself can't defend all the currently undefended coastal cities? lets get one musket in two of them at least, rather than potentially defend with an offensive unit.

2. will we still war if they get muskets in their cities before we intend to attack? I dont think there is as much benefit for us in a war if they do

[wervdon]

I went ahead and voted yes, but only for the GA. We should take one (or two) cities in the 5 turns that is required to make peace too though (plus we'll need a win or two to get good peace terms quickly), then make peace with our GA asap. Needless to say we should try to time it so the GA starts as close to the last turn of the war as possible.

[E_T]

If we want a total Complete conquest of France, then we should wait until the FP is built. If we absorb all of the french cities before the FP is built, It will really jepardize the construction time of the FP through greater Corruption in Contagion.

As we stand now, Contagion has a Corruption/Waste of 63% and the Waste will be reduced to 45% with WLKD. If 5 cities are added (and they will be closer than Contagion, pushing Contagion "back"), The Corruption will be 77% with Waste at 53% with WLKD. If 7 cities are added (leaving France with one city), Corruption will be 82% and Waste will be 57% with WLKD.
If all of France is taken out, 8 more cities will make Contagion's corruption 85% and Waste of 60% (I really love Excel for these things). That would mean an overall increase of 15% to the TOC for the FP, assuming that I can maintain WLKD in the city while the FP is under construction. And that's just for Contagion!

THIS IS WHY I ONLY support a LIMITED war at this time. I would actually rather not have it, but I want the GA to help offset the above corruption effects and to get our Core cties up to a better point, at a faster rate. This is also one of the reason that I posted in the MoIE thread about combineing two of the French Cities (Corruption in Contagion would be 73% and Waste of 51% with WLKD). Once the FP is built, it's a whole different story.

But I want the Resources to sell, I want some of the cities and I'd like to have the money to get some things done. I would like us to be able to do our own research. I want to keep Joan from the possibility of her own GA. I want the GA, plain & simple, the rest is fringe benifits. I can handle some of the additional Corruption effects, but not for the whole mess.

We can further explore any additional terratorial expansion (Germany anyone?) AFTER the FP is completed.

E_T

[Randolph]

Good analysis of corruption E_T, this is definitely something that should be taken into consideration. It could be avoided if we razed the cities , but I don’t see this happening.

Also am I the only one concerned with the 1080L proposed cost of this war? This type of money could go a long way if spent on buildings (like finishing off the Q in Contagion so the FP can be started immediately). Oh well, it seems like it’s a little late to be arguing against this.

[Kloreep]

There's always a third option: gift the cities we don't want to someone else, like Greece, Rome, or Russia. Solves our corruption troubles, gives them more corruption and more fringe cities to worry about, and betters relations.

[pikesfan]

I like Kloreep's idea.

I support war, even though at heart I am a peaceful builder, because right now the French can say,

Whatever happens we have got
The Saltpetre, and they have not.

Whatever happens we have got
The Musket Gun, and they have not.

If we had any saltpetre, then I would not support war against France because we would then have the necessary resource to defend ourselves against anyone else and also because we would not need to fear a French attack because the Musketeers are a defensive weapon. However, we have no saltpetre, and we need it to build modern units to defend our cities so we can build things in peace.

[Shiber]

We have two sources of saltpeter within our borders, and still we want to take France's sources so that they do not become strong. France has a lot of of border cities on hills, and when defended by fortified musketmen, these cities can turn into nightmares.

[Arnelos]

E_T, you rock!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by E_T
If we want a total Complete conquest of France, then we should wait until the FP is built. If we absorb all of the french cities before the FP is built, It will really jepardize the construction time of the FP through greater Corruption in Contagion.

As we stand now, Contagion has a Corruption/Waste of 63% and the Waste will be reduced to 45% with WLKD. If 5 cities are added (and they will be closer than Contagion, pushing Contagion "back"), The Corruption will be 77% with Waste at 53% with WLKD. If 7 cities are added (leaving France with one city), Corruption will be 82% and Waste will be 57% with WLKD.
If all of France is taken out, 8 more cities will make Contagion's corruption 85% and Waste of 60% (I really love Excel for these things). That would mean an overall increase of 15% to the TOC for the FP, assuming that I can maintain WLKD in the city while the FP is under construction. And that's just for Contagion!

THIS IS WHY I ONLY support a LIMITED war at this time. I would actually rather not have it, but I want the GA to help offset the above corruption effects and to get our Core cties up to a better point, at a faster rate. This is also one of the reason that I posted in the MoIE thread about combineing two of the French Cities (Corruption in Contagion would be 73% and Waste of 51% with WLKD). Once the FP is built, it's a whole different story.

But I want the Resources to sell, I want some of the cities and I'd like to have the money to get some things done. I would like us to be able to do our own research. I want to keep Joan from the possibility of her own GA. I want the GA, plain & simple, the rest is fringe benifits. I can handle some of the additional Corruption effects, but not for the whole mess.

We can further explore any additional terratorial expansion (Germany anyone?) AFTER the FP is completed.

E_T

Then we should raze our less useful cities starting with New York and San Cortes as they are trying to flip some 6 foreign cities into out empire.

We should burn out cathedrals and temples so we no longer produce culture so as we gain no more cities.

We are trying to gain a lot more than three cities with culture flip. To leave France in the game and all of those French Citizens in our cities hostile and the potential threat of culture flip, and the possibilty of France bringing in allies because they dislike us, and the loss of the Western coast just because we don't need those three cities is a fairly moot argument .

Those French cities can be razed and condensed into a smaller number of cities that are more effective and we'll most likely get those three cities that will effect the corruption line through another route anyway.

[Jonny]

I would like to point out that France (in the 770 save) is now building a road to their saltpeter source.

[Aggie]

The Declaration of War is hereby approved by the people of apolyton and I will give orders accordingly. We will launch an attack no later than 810 and possibly earlier if possible. Thank you for your support in making such a great decision.
Aggie