GL Creation: War with France

[nz_upy]

To create anothe GL the most feasible option I see is that we harass the French into declaring war with us as to create a war with which we could both consolidate our borders, eat French babies, gain access to the other side of Anabanana and possibly generate another GL from which we can get Bach's or Adam's or ....

[Duddha]

To create anothe GL the most feasible option I see is that we harass the French into declaring war with us as to create a war with which we could both consolidate our borders, eat French babies, gain access to the other side of Anabanana and possibly generate another GL from which we can get Bach's or Adam's or ....

And a Hawk is born! I support this position but I fear we will have to be the ones declaring war.

[Meshelic]

A GL would be of GREAT importance to us, therein allowing us to advance way ahead of the other civs in terms of great wonders. Think of the potential there!

NZUPY great post.

Duddha, on a different note (but following the same lines), how long do you forecast until we can get navigation-->magnetism under our wing?

[Meshelic]

French babies....hmmm, we could buy a bunch on the black market and train them as spies!

[E_T]

Originally posted by Meshelic
A GL would be of GREAT importance to us, therein allowing us to advance way ahead of the other civs in terms of great wonders. Think of the potential there!

NZUPY great post.

Duddha, on a different note (but following the same lines), how long do you forecast until we can get navigation-->magnetism under our wing?

My report for 530 AD in this thread might give you an Idea of the answer that you want.

As for Wonders, Unless we get a GL at the proper time, you can forget building any in the Middle Ages.

E_T

[Duddha]

Duddha, on a different note (but following the same lines), how long do you forecast until we can get navigation-->magnetism under our wing?

Rightfully so, a CP candidate has adressed your question. The CP, the Economic Minister and the Foreign Minister have more control over how fast we acquire techs than the MoS. I will do my best to convince the Reddawg to raise the tech rate and convince the CP to build libraries.

Under my plans we will probably research Navigation after Democracy or Banking, depending on public opinion. So how ever long it takes to get to Democracy is about how long it will take to get Navigation.

[Arnelos]

Re: GL Creation: War with France

Originally posted by nz_upy
To create anothe GL the most feasible option I see is that we harass the French into declaring war with us as to create a war with which we could both consolidate our borders, eat French babies, gain access to the other side of Anabanana and possibly generate another GL from which we can get Bach's or Adam's or ....

This glosses over the fact that our chances of getting a GL from a war with France are exceedingly small... so small that it is hardly a reason to justify such a campaign.... especially since the resources expent on such a campaign might just as well be used to build additional improvements in our cities and provide a far more guaranteed chance of augmenting ourselves than the exceedingly small chance of getting a GL you're hoping for...

[zeit]

This glosses over the fact that our chances of getting a GL from a war with France are exceedingly small... so small that it is hardly a reason to justify such a campaign.... especially since the resources expent on such a campaign might just as well be used to build additional improvements in our cities and provide a far more guaranteed chance of augmenting ourselves than the exceedingly small chance of getting a GL you're hoping for...

And why would think that, Arnelos, charging a WC against one of their lowly warriors will surely do the trick, don't you agree?

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by zeit


And why would think that, Arnelos, charging a WC against one of their lowly warriors will surely do the trick, don't you agree?

zeit, you are obviously confusing a GL (Great Leader) with a GA (Golden Age). A GA would indeed start if one of our WCs defeated a French warrior (assuming they have any warriors, an unlikely prospect...). However, a GL can only be formed when an elite unit wins a battle and is amazingly lucky enough to produce one... especially since we are not a militaristic civ, the probability is exceedingly small. As if that did not make the chance low enough, all elite units go to veteran when they are upgraded... so any elite knights we have will become veteran cavalry.... which means we'd have to have a cavalry unit in the French war both promoted to elite and produce a GL in the same conflict.... an extremely unlikely prospect for being a non-militaristic civ.

[Shiber]

We saw French warriors at the cultural borders of Rheims several turns, the last time being the beginning of the last turnchat. Let's just hope they don't complete a barracks and upgrade them by the time we attack.

[zeit]

oops, sorry Anelos.
just saw the Capital 'g' and france and thought this was about GA...

But why are the chances that slim?
we'll probably stick to knights by the time we have a war with france, we'll have the war in 20 turns or less, according the Aggie's plan. Of course this has to be approved by the public and be beneficial (the war), but we don't have any other options in site, so even if this reason alone doesn't justify the war, perhaps it gives us another excuse for the war, along with expanding the border and getting saltpeter, excess to the western shore and sparking a GA.

[Shiber]

I'd prefer if this war was limited to a minimum. After Lyons and its neighbouring cities, there's not much we can take from France that's worth the spending.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by zeit
oops, sorry Anelos.
just saw the Capital 'g' and france and thought this was about GA...

But why are the chances that slim?
we'll probably stick to knights by the time we have a war with france, we'll have the war in 20 turns or less, according the Aggie's plan. Of course this has to be approved by the public and be beneficial (the war), but we don't have any other options in site, so even if this reason alone doesn't justify the war, perhaps it gives us another excuse for the war, along with expanding the border and getting saltpeter, excess to the western shore and sparking a GA.

I know what Aggie's argued about using knights in the war with France, but I'm still worried about the French getting gunpowder and then being able to have those annoying musketeers running all over the place... units which will make our knights fall by the droves (especially if said musketeers are fortified inside large cities).

So my argument is that if France (or anyone else) has gunpowder, it would likely be very unwise to attack with only knights. We would have to augment our knights with cannons at the very least, though by that point why not simply wait for military tradition and convert to cavalry?

[zeit]

Indeed, although there is the possibilty that even if we kick their ass, they won't be willing to have peace with us, it happened to me several times, so we would be drawn into longer period of fighting, which IMHO the goal would be to reach the western shore.

[Reddawg]

I am very, very much opposed to a war with France. This American War is the last one I condone for some time to come; provoking a war with France in order to get a GL is not acceptable to me, and anyone will have a hard time convincing me otherwise. Anyone remember that massive thread about this, and the Pax Apolytonia ?