Newest save

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Two things of note:

-- Despite being ranked second from the bottom in disease (at 23%), we're first in life expectancy (at 47 years). Go figure.

-- So we're researching Printing Press. I haven't really been caught up with the orders, but would we be planning on selling or trading it?

[OPD]

last save the chat is now over.

[Donegeal]

took 3 sec that time...

[Shiber]

No offense to anyone, but I'm somewhat disappointed that noone kept an eye on those cities and they went to disorder. Those were some of our most productive cities and we've lost quite a lot due to nothing more than carelessness.
I know it's hard to keep track of each and every one of our 38 cities, and it's even harder to do that during a busy turnchat. Perhaps the CP should appoint a special deputy in charge of monitoring cities and making sure they don't go into disorder. That way we'll have a person who could focus only on this laborous job during the turnchats and do it right.

[E_T]

Originally posted by Shiber
No offense to anyone, but I'm somewhat disappointed that noone kept an eye on those cities and they went to disorder. Those were some of our most productive cities and we've lost quite a lot due to nothing more than carelessness.
I know it's hard to keep track of each and every one of our 38 cities, and it's even harder to do that during a busy turnchat. Perhaps the CP should appoint a special deputy in charge of monitoring cities and making sure they don't go into disorder. That way we'll have a person who could focus only on this laborous job during the turnchats and do it right.

The cities went into civil disorder because the desicion by the FAM was to let the Deal with Rome "continue to ride". We lost the Ivory between turns and thereby, couldn't make any changes to cities to compensate for the Unexpected Lux loss.

Gaia, for example had a population of 9; 4 happy, 4 unhappy & 1 Entertainer. It was due to grow in about 6-7 turns and to complete the marketplace in 12-15 turns. There was consern during the turnchat as to the growth rate for it. They changed it while I was busy with something else and when I realized what the concern was, I had them change it back. My overall plan was to allow it to grow while storing the extra population as specialist and then have them go back to work as soon as they got the marketplace completed. That would have left the city at size 10 with the granery fuller and the city closer to becoming size 12. Some of the cities, on the other hand, I'm limiting the growth for a bit, while some of the needed city implovements are competed and they can safely grow.

I (and there where several people during the turnchat who where capable, too) can evaluate and change the city assignments if we had lost the Ivory DURING the turn, but I can't predict the loss of it during the part of the turn that we really have no control over, the AI's turn. During my tenure as DFM for Trade, that's why I post the charts that I have, to keep the FM and the general population informed about things like that, so that we don't "get caught with our pants around our ankles". How many people even read it? Personally, in a democracy, 'I' like to be an informed citizen and in the position that I'm in now (and currently running for) I beleave in providing informing so that the population knows what to expect and where we are going to.

I had (as acting CP) implored on the FAM to renew the Ivory for atleast another 20 turn round. By that time, I would have had more Markets & Cathedrals in place to have been able to take the shock of a loss like we have experianced. Be thankful to the Banana and the SMC for the fact the we DO control the other 4 luxuries that we have.

E_T

[Shiber]

E_T, I fully understand. There was no way the ministry of City Planning could have made the necessary changes if the AI had canceled the deal during his turn. However, this brings up another question:
Why wasn't the deal canceled during our turn? According to Togas's orders we should have renegotiated this deal during the 560 AD turn and not wait until the renegotiation window pops up and let the AI be the one to cancel it. Had we done it properly we would have been able to adjust workers and specialists accordingly and not be in this situation.

Btw, how long does it take for a report to come up? I haven't seen even the brief one yet. I'm not expecting a full report anymore since with so many orders every turn, compiling a verbose report is too laborous a job, but at least give me a brief report so I know what happened.

[E_T]

Originally posted by Shiber
E_T, I fully understand. There was no way the ministry of City Planning could have made the necessary changes if the AI had canceled the deal during his turn. However, this brings up another question:
Why wasn't the deal canceled during our turn? According to Togas's orders we should have renegotiated this deal during the 560 AD turn and not wait until the renegotiation window pops up and let the AI be the one to cancel it. Had we done it properly we would have been able to adjust workers and specialists accordingly and not be in this situation.

Togas had decided during the turnchat that Rome wanted too much for the deal. He ordered OPD to not renegotiate and "let it ride". It did for one turn and then Rome pop'ed up during the last turn and wanted to change the deal. Togas made the desicion to leave out the Ivory for that moment and see if we can get a better deal with Greece (if they have any surplus Ivory). Greece has more favorable relations with us and gives us better deals because of it (see my last report on technology pricings to get a feel for this).

Btw, how long does it take for a report to come up? I haven't seen even the brief one yet. I'm not expecting a full report anymore since with so many orders every turn, compiling a verbose report is too laborous a job, but at least give me a brief report so I know what happened.

Well, at least for me, I had been up all night before the turnchat to get the Build queues and CP orders done. When the turnchat was done, I was in NO condition to even think about any reports, little alone start one. Frankly, I'm surprised that I'm awake now (I should still be getting another few more hours sleep). I'm working on the DFM for Trade Report right now, so I hope to have it posted by noon.

E_T

[Shiber]

Okay, I'm glad to hear this misfortunate turn of events didn't occur out of carelessness but was a simple error. Next time the FAM should know that there is no point in letting a deal 'ride' because the AI will automatically renegotiate it during his turn (I tested this with several scenarios). Instead we must take care of everything during our turn, especially when it comes to sensitive stuff such as luxuries so that we can make the necessary adjustments ahead should we decide to cancel the deal.

[Aggie]

Though I didn't like the unrest I am happy that we are out of the ivory deal. Yes it made people happy, but it also made us a hostage to rome. Now we can use that dye to perhaps trade with them for a tech and maybe turn the speciallist for happiness into scientist. We do need more marketplaces and cathedrals remember with temple/cath we are safe in EVERY city until at least we get sanitation. So see the good side. Soon we will have another incense in our grasp to trade with due to the new settler.
Aggie

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Shiber
Okay, I'm glad to hear this misfortunate turn of events didn't occur out of carelessness but was a simple error. Next time the FAM should know that there is no point in letting a deal 'ride' because the AI will automatically renegotiate it during his turn (I tested this with several scenarios). Instead we must take care of everything during our turn, especially when it comes to sensitive stuff such as luxuries so that we can make the necessary adjustments ahead should we decide to cancel the deal.

Didn't you test the other way once? We renegotated peace on a given turn, and then later you did some tests and found out that we could have let the deal ride and continued making the previous (greater) amount? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that came up once, and was tested to the opposite affect.

If anyone knows of any threads on the strat/general forums about when/if the AI renegotiates that they could point to me, that'd be great. I don't go to those forums much, but I admit that I honestly don't really know when the AI does and doesn't renegotiate, and would appreciate it if anyone can help me figure it out .

-- adaMada

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Why did we not trade for the Greek Workers? And where are all the workers on Uber coming from since we never built any there? I am becoming so lost.

[Shiber]

adaMada, you're right for bringing this up but my results were actually the other way around (confirming what we experienced this turnchat). At first I posted that you can let a deal ride sometimes but then I figured that I was using the wrong save, found the correct one, tried it and found out that you can't do these kind of things.
I'm sorry for being unclear as to the results of that experiment.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Shiber
adaMada, you're right for bringing this up but my results were actually the other way around (confirming what we experienced this turnchat). At first I posted that you can let a deal ride sometimes but then I figured that I was using the wrong save, found the correct one, tried it and found out that you can't do these kind of things.
I'm sorry for being unclear as to the results of that experiment.

Ok . Good to know for the future, anyway... I'll keep it in mind.

-- adaMada

[zeit]

The deal should have been renegotiated, even if thr Romans asked for more, We really need that Ivory, esepecially in Republic. The costs of the wasted work by disorder and specialists greatly suppresses the extra lytons Rome charges. And, as a matter of fact, Rome is in a better relations with us (catious) than Greece(annoyed), and according to what i've checked now, a new deal with Greece would cost us 28gpt, while Ivory from Rome costs us Dyes+15gpt, makes perfect sense to me, We must buy the Ivory from Rome now and minimize the damage.