Are boats for exploration under SMC or under MoIE

[Aggie]

This is something that has come up again. Now unlike the debate in Trips time we actually can build these units in real numbers. The question is this are boats for exploration(galley/caravels) under the SMC or MoIE. Basically this will discussion will determine under which one the deputy in charge of exploration on the seas(The DISCO) will serve under. I am open to either way but want the people to speak.
Aggie

[BigFurryMonster]

Don't care. Build now!

[Donegeal]

IMHO, they (galleys, caravals, galeons, transports) should fall under MoIE until such time as the SMC calls them into service for a military campaign. The SMC would have to petition the current prez (or poll the people) to give him temporary control of scouting vessals.

The only problem with this is that our ships could be badly out of place when we need them.

[Shiber]

I second with Donegeal.
Regarding the problem he's mentioned, I guess we'll just have to plan ahead.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I agree with donegal.

Exploration - MoIE
Troop transport/Military Campaigns - SMC

[mtgillespie]

I disagree. They are no different from ground units which happen to be used for exploration. they should first be under the control of the SMC, who then has the power to second them to another ministry if this is required. Defence of the realm is more important than exploration, and the SMC should have ALL units under his command.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Exploration falls specifically under the SMC. I can dig up references on that if needed.

[DAVOUT]

Any armed units are under the SMC, who is the only one able to establish the discipline of fire in the field or at sea.

[Inverse Icarus]

according to what the rules i laid down, all boats start under control of the SMC and can be comissioned to other offices for use.

what you people let the DIA do to my rules, i don't know

[Inverse Icarus]

digging deep, heres a quote:

and back to me expanding my powers, yes, i have been doing that.

why? because it's in the best interests of the military, and my job is to assure everything that is the best for our military.

if we conquer a city, and our civ's units are at risk due to culture flip etc, the SMC should have the right to take charge and starve people out of the city and / or build walls or more units. The poll i put up passed (more voted yes than no, but the yes's were scattered).

another thing that i did was i got the SMC many of the powers enumerated to him/her by the constitution (or whatever we call it), and i quote:

This officer is the principal military advisor to the President and the people, and prepares military plans and reviews overall military requirements for our nation. He/She also has the responsibility to assess threats to the security of the country and keep everyone up to date on these threats.

The Military Advisor is granted the power to set up the army's strategy. He tells what troops to move where, and which battles to engage.

The Military Advisor is granted the right to take an active part in negotiations of Peace Treaties, Mutual Protection Pacts, or a Right of Passage agreements. (Note: The Foreign Advisor calls the shots, but the Military Advisor must have his voice heard).

if i had not pushed for the third clause, our units could be in serious danger. imagine if the man controling the units had o say in a MPP, and all of a sudden we're fighting a 2 front war we werent ready for?

Yet another power i pushed for was reguardign sea transportation. It started off as a simple question, but i gave again gained power for my office. the SMC has the power to "comission" ships to any department that needs them for specific tasks, as well as just assigning them for "general" purposes.

for example, if the IE Minister needs to transport a settler, i may give him a boat for the duration of the mission, or i may give him a boat for all hsi future endavors.

in general, i am gaining power not for myself, as you make it out to be, but for my office and for the military in general. i believe the general apolytonian public believe the SMC post is best filled by someone willing to fight for what needs to be done.

[UnOrthOdOx]

You beat me to it. I dug back and had that same quote...There is one from Trip as well, but I can't get the wildcards working in the search engine.

[ruby_maser]

I think the SMC should get control, but where matters of exploration and expansion are involved (and not just offense, defense, and transport), the SMC should be strongly incouraged to coordinate with the MoIE as to the best possible places to explore from so as to maximize our chances of acquiring more lands and being the first to colonize them.

[joncnunn]

For the record, I don't support the building of any boats right now because we need more inferstructure.

Instead upgrade the Galleys as we buy the techs to Astronemy and later Navigation.

We might have a coastal city built up enough by the time we have Navigation to build additional Galleons.

[Arnelos]

Personally, I think we should have Lord of the Admiralty or Secretary of the Navy... but that's just my opinion

As for exploration, obviously I'm a wee bit biased because I'm running for IE at the moment, but I honestly think that IE is going to become a far less meaningful position as time moves forward. With the whole consolidation of various offices, it might make sense to give the IE a little more responsibility, as the movement of settlers is going to be non-existant after a while... in conjunction with that and with the work of the Con Con, it might make sense to move the IE minister underneath either the SMC or the Foreign Ministry and form it into the "Colonial Office" in charge of administration of conquered cities (until they are handed over to the City Planner's office), movement of settlers to form new cities/colonies, and any efforts at exploration. This would make the office underneath likely the SMC and answerable to that individual (thus not really removing any responsibilities taken from the SMC from under his influence).

So the formation of a "Colonial Office" I feal is in order (though historically such offices existed underneath the Foreign Ministry, for our purposes it might be easier to place it under the War/Defense Ministry).

We may also want a seperate "Lord Admiral of the Navy" either as seperate from the SMC or underneath him. If we eventually develop a navy, this would be good. It would also create more opportunities for role-play, as the Lord Admiral of the Navy and the Supreme Military Commander (of the Army) would have to work to cooperate (not to mention with the Colonial Office and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ). Things could get just as interesting as they did for historical colonizing/imperializing European states of the 19th Century

That's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Meshelic]

I believe that the navy should be coordinated jointly by the Minister of Imperial Expansion and the Supreme Military Commander...

Arnelos I understand too that there is a bias for me as well, since I too am running for MIE. But since it seems both of us candidates support this resolution, neither can be accused of wanting this for personal gain. And you are right, the Minister of IE will become less and less important as the game progresses, simply due to the lack of free land tiles to expand to.