Game Report 440-490 AD and save

[E_T]

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
We 'forgot' to trade the Spice for nice technology. Instead, we got some Lytons out of it. Now, we don't have some spare Spice to spare (try saying that 10 times fast).

Excuse me, but we did trade some of the Spice for the nice Technology. Music Theory to be precise. We got it from England as part of the Peace Renegotiation with them. The exact deal was Music Theory; WM & 19 Lytons for Peace & Spices. For a Technology, this wan't a bad deal at all. Some say that this is a dead end Tech and not worth that much, but we can use it to store up sheilds for trying to get Smith's Trading. We might also use it in a trade sometime in the future, to someone. I explored selling the Spices for Astronomy or Gunpowder, but it would not have been much of a discount and I didn't have the authority to spend that much of our money without first consulting with the FM and the MoE.

Originally posted by OPD
No we shouldn't have traded it at all.
I'm thinking about calling for an emergency cabinet meeting over this.

I had discussed the possibility of saving the Incense that we had sold to Rome for this eventuality. I was wanting to trade Incense & Spice & Peace with Greece for Astronomy (Greece is more favorable to us and would give us a better deal). But we didn't KNOW for sure if Greece (or Rome at that) would have Astronomy (it was heavily congectured), so the deal with Rome was done.

Per Togas's orders, we traded all of our Wine, Incense & Spice surplus this turnchat. I don't see any problem, if there was, it should have been brought up either before the turnchat OR while we where in chat.

If we get Printing Press before the other Civs, we should be able to trade THAT for Gunpowder and then try trading Gunpowder for Astronomy, but that's for the next round and we'll need to get it first.

E_T

[joncnunn]

IMHO, we aren't in a position to use Music Theory right now.

Does either the current City Planner or one of his administractive deputies willing to forgo inferstructure development on any city right now?

And even if this is so, I predict that the Hawk Party will say to produce Knights there and if it's coastal, the We Want Ships crowd we'll say to produce ships there. The Thinkers Guild will complain if this city doesn't have a libary. The group wanting a Golden Age will complain if the city doesn't have a Market Place.

[BigFurryMonster]

Originally posted by E_T

Per Togas's orders, we traded all of our Wine, Incense & Spice surplus this turnchat. I don't see any problem, if there was, it should have been brought up either before the turnchat OR while we where in chat.

It =was= brought up in the chat. Many people asked if we had traded for Astronomy, and many requests involved trading spice.

[adaMada]

Here's my take on the whole issue.

E_T's decision was consistent with Togas' orders. I didn't leave instructions that anticipated this when I left, so he had to make a decision in the absence of Togas and myself (E_T had been confirmed by Togas as third in command before the chat began). We can argue the merits of that decision all day, but the fact remains that it was made. I'd much rather see some plans on any way to obtain Astronomy/Gunpowder then much more discussion about if this was right or wrong, to be honest.

I don't mean to criticize anything anyone's already said -- if something comes up in a chat, it should be discussed, and if someone thinks that an error has been made, it should be pointed out. Having said that, the issue has been brought up now, and I'd like to make a friendly recommendation that we move on -- what's done is done, and I'd personally rather debate future actions, which we might be able to change.

-- adaMada

[E_T]

Originally posted by adaMada
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[Snip]
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I'd much rather see some plans on any way to obtain Astronomy/Gunpowder then much more discussion about if this was right or wrong, to be honest.
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[Snip]
-- adaMada

I've been putting some thought into that while I was working on my Report (to be posted late this evening).

I conjecture that the Aztecs are researching Gunpowder. They have had Invention for a while and they are Militaristic, so I think that they will get it soon. A Gunpowder for Education trade would not cost us as much as buying it outright, especially coupled with a possible WM (if we are allowed to sell it at that time). The Aztecs still don't have a trade route with us, but they do need some of our surpluss Dyes. If the Banana is really smiling on us, the two will happen about the same time and well get Gunpowder for practically free.

And if we get Gunpowder before the Greeks do, we can trade them for Astronomy (or banking, if that's available by that time too).

That's what I'm going to Recommend in my Report.

E_T

[OPD]

ok wrong end of the stick indeed.

Yes there was an error made and a very big one, probably the biggest error made so far in this game.

There must be no doubt that the error is my fault and no one else's. The fact that the foreign ministry does not yet see the problem we now face highlights the fact that this can be no ones fault but my own. The foreign ministry takes care of trades and buisness with other civs. It is my job to manage the whole or take an overall view of things and make sure no big mistakes are made. However a "slip up" has been made with regard to trading spices and it can be no ones fault but my own. I as president should have vetod any trade deal involving spices as there is a good chance that we could loose them within the next twenty turns.
I am calling an emergency cabinet meeting over this to see what can be done before the next turns are played. Full responsibility for this has now been taken and efforts should be directed to discusing what we can to rectify the situation.

[adaMada]

We might loose the spices within the next twenty turns?

No, I'm sorry OPD, it's our job to notice that as well. I honestly had no idea that trading the spices were even an issue. My uptmost apologies. I also take partial responsibility, as I should have been following the other Ministers plans (assuming that OPD's refering to a Minister's plan) closer and watching for things like this... Predicting things that will affect trades is one of the things the Foreign Ministry needs to do, and I'm very sorry we've apparently failed.

Please, could someone tell me why we're gonna loose it? I'll go have a look at a map, but I can't load the game right now and don't know of any reason... I guess we'll have to find a way to sort this out now .

Again, my most sincere apologies.

-- adaMada

[OPD]

Originally posted by OPD
Full responsibility for this has now been taken and efforts should be directed to discusing what we can to rectify the situation.

Please no more discussion about anything other than what we can/should do.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by OPD


Please no more discussion about anything other than what we can/should do.

Ok, very well .

I'll start looking into it ASAP.

-- adaMada

[BigFurryMonster]

Report edited for 490 AD info.

[BigFurryMonster]

Also edited for (probable) next turnchat day and time, and some analysis bits.

[OPD]

Ok am very time constricted ATM and my comp is going a bit slow too. Thanks very much to BFM for doing this. Will put this in the official thread when I get the time although my plans concerning the saves thread didn't go very well during my term as pres.

Aggie is taking the next chat I think which I guess is tonight.

So speak to him about it.