The time of overseas exploration is nearly upon us!

[Shiber]

As the title says, the time of overseas exploration is nearly upon us! Germany already has Astronomy, and soon Germany or another civ will have Navigation. We must prepare for this so we can be the first to discover the lost civs!
I propose the following plan: build three galleys (or more if the CP deems this possible) and position them in the Persian shore (eastern-most point of the continent), or in the sea near the Persian shore if we get Astronomy by then. Once we learn Navigation (should be a top priority) we must send the galleys immediately in three different directions to maximize our chances of discovering the lost civs.
I suggest that we start building galleys in Mingapulco right now! At some point we may also have to rush the rest of the shields necessary to complete the galleys so they can be in position for their voyage of exploration in time.

Sir Ralph: I support the idea of sending suicide galleys even right now but I'm afraid there's not much public support for this, so I'm not going to try to promote this idea and rather promote a safer plan that will get more support from the public.

[Donegeal]

This sounds like a do-able plan. One thing though: I say four Galleys so we can launch them from the "four corners of the globe". One off Sourthern Persian coast heading east. One off Aztec coast heading east. One off Greek Island heading west and one off Abananaba Minor heading east. With in one turnchat of getting Nav we WILL have discovered the lost civs!

[Arnelos]

You're right on the absense of public support for wasting resources... we have pathetically under-developed infrastructure... suicide gallies will have a to wait until we reach at least parity in that area, I would think...

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Don't forget plan Vodka! After next turn we will be able to build galleys in New Cherbourg and send them off from the Greek coast!

[Shiber]

Oh... so that's what Plan Vodka is.
Okay then: one galley near New Cherbourg, one galley in the Persian shores, one galley in eastern Abananaba Minor and one galley in western Abananaba Minor. How is that?

Btw, I've just noticed that the Iroquois have named their city on the island near the Greek shores 'Centralia'. Kind of a funny name for a town in a location such as this, don't you think?

[adaMada]

I'd be in support of sending two to four galleys to explore. There are one or two locations which seem to be most probable (chances of success seem good), and the benefits of finding the lost civilizations far outweigh the loss of a few galleys.

From a Foreign Affairs point of view, there's little more valuable to us now then finding those civs first, in my opinion.

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

If it's possible, I suppose your guys are right. It's just that I worry (as others) about the shields that could be saved and spent on more improvements at this critical point.

We're at something of a crossroads, with not enough resources to build all of the many projects we'd like to build... so we have to prioritize - no decision may be inherently better than the others (though one may actually be better, I'd argue that there are too many unknowns to be sure) - it's just we have to decide...

If a majority thinks we should spend the necessary shields on those gallies, so be it .

[GePap]

NEARLY?????

The possible returns on such an investment are huge! we should press on at all haste. We are already at least 3, if not more, techs behind the tech leader, Herr Bismarck. We can't keep up buying, and as i said before, wars for tech don't work well when the enemy kicks your ass, which might be the case if we send knights v possible musketmen in size 10 cities...

Also, as the great chart from E_T in the foreign office thread ( The Foreign Office: working for your convinience in knowing our enemies, since the foundation of the state. Join Us!) many civs now have astronomy. If we don't begin now, we have already lost the race, and as SirRalph pointed out, the potential benefits are immense!

WE HAVE TO GET STARTED TODAY! (or tommorrow, at the chat)

[Shiber]

Arnelos, I fully understand but please keep in mind that first contact with the missing civs will give us TREMENDOUS amounts of cash!
We can sell them tech. We can sell them world maps. We can sell them luxuries. We can get excellent prices from them for our tech and our luxuries because we'll have techs that none of the other lost civs have and we'll be the sole providers of 2 to 5 luxuries.
Btw, this is another reason why we shouldn't resort to selling contacts to the Abananaban civs until one of those civs is about to or has discovered the lost civs by itself. Should this happen we can make a profit of over a thousand lytons from selling contacts with the 3 lost civs for the 11 other civilizations of Abananaba.

[Arnelos]

Shiber, I know... it's just that the effort has a very high probability of being fruitless... so determining whether this is worth doing is a lot like deciding whether to put your money in a slot machine... you could win A TON of money, but he chances of you doing so for your investment are actually rather small.

If your goal is to maximize potential gains, you go for it... the potential gains are FAR higher, yes.

However, if your goal is to minimize your losses, then the prudent course is not to spend the resources building the galleys - as there's a good chance you'll spend all that production for no return.

Deciding one over the other is really a matter of preference... as the determination of which one is superior is decided almost entirely by chance in this case.

[adaMada]

Am I wrong in saying that Navigation gives us access to all squares (Ocean and Sea?)

If not, then how can we loose? They've got to be there somewhere, and if we set out before the AI does and take a logical path, we're very likely to find them. There's only so many places you can fit a decent sized continent ...

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

adaMada,

That being said, the possibility of losing our gallies in storms at sea is very high... not to mention that w/o foreknowledge of just where the coast is in all that shadowed area our chance of having even one ship be able to reach the opposing coast in a single turn is slim. With the attrition rate for galleys such as it is, it is quite unlikely that even 1 of the 4 would survive while making it to a far shore.

This leaves us with 2 options:

1. Build more than 4 ships... each additional ship increases our odds more than the last ship added did (this is because each additional both raises the chance that a given number of ships will survive the first turn AND more ships covers more sea area, raising the chance of spotting land).

2. Just take the shot we have, hoping for that lucky hit (spot land AND survive)

NOTE: It is VERY key to remember that we are not playing where we can reload and go back to re-do the turn where we lost our galley here... in this game, if we lose the galley, we lose the galley. As such, if any of you are the type of player who reloads when the lose a lot of gallies at sea, you should keep in mind that losses are going to be more severe here .

[ruby_maser]

We are already at least 3, if not more, techs behind the tech leader, Herr Bismarck.

One good thing is that germany is landlocked but with the AI, when they get their greedy hands on Navigation then suddenly everyone but us will have it.

[adaMada]

Can someone remind me what the odds of a galley dying at sea is with navigation?

What tech do we need before we can build real ships?

-- adaMada

[Meshelic]

No public support? I've supported the idea of building up our navy and exploring the rest of the world for a long time now.

Seriously, we need to have a vote on this, as I believe that more people will see the benefits of building up and sending out our ships to explore for the lost civs.

Isolationism never really helped anyone.