$Mini-Game TRADING SESSION TEN (10)

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Turn 10 closes EXACTLY 72 hours from the post time of this message.

Use this thread for trade proposals only. So, NO DEBATES HERE (except relating to current session rules questions)

For rules, a directory of threads and debates see the thread Main thread and directory

Current Market Assessment:

Turn Number: 10
In Game year: 440 AD
"Market One": Apolyton, Termina, Tassagrad, BHQ, Port Rouge

Total population: 5+5+4+4+1=19

Labor Market
Apolyton Available Labor: 4
Termina Available Labor: 4
Tassagrad Available Labor: 5
BHQ Available Labor: 5
Gotham Available Labor: 1
(The Labor market is now done on a per city basis. Simply state in the following format, "Hire 1 Labor in Apolyton @ $26 (D:S 1/4 = $25)". To use Vassal labor simply state "Use 1 of my Vassals on my estate.")

Vassals for Auction:
2 Persian
1 German
1 Roman
Total of 4 vassals available for auction.


Commodity Markets
FOOD MARKET
Food demand: 19x2=38 Food supplied: 2+2+2+2+2= 11 (10+1(fallow))
D:S = 38/11 = $345

SHIELD MARKET
Shield Demand: 8+7+5+4+1=25
Shield Supply: 8+7+5+5+1=26
D:S = 25/26 = $100

COMMERCE MARKET
NOTE BASE RATE FOR COMMERCE IS $50
So multiply D:S by 50% for current market price.
Commerce Demand: 19x5=95
Commerce Supplied: (4+2+2+1+1= 10)11 +(fallow)1=12
D:S = 95/12 x.50= $396


ALCOHOL MARKET
{Ale, Beer, Rum, and Wine} Base price $100
Apolyton Market: 4
Termina Market: 4
Tassagrad Market: 5
BHQ Market: 5
Gotham Market: 1

ALCOHOL MARKET
Wine, Rum, Beer, and Ale.

Set at Pop x 1 for cities 5 and under, Pop x 2 for cities 19 and under, and Pop x 3 for cities 20 and over. The larger/more densely packed the city, the greater the demand fof alcohol.

So a size 5 city would have a demand of 5. A size 6 city would have a demand of 12, and a size 20 city would have a demand of 30.


Use the format provided in the rules to post your proposals.


THIS SESSION USES THE FOLLOWING RULES:
Vassals consume 1 food for every 2 vassals. (Examples: 1 vassal consumes 1 food, 2 vassals consume 1 food, 3 vassals consume 2 food, etc.)


CURRENT BUILDINGS AVAILABLE:
RETAIL BUSINESSES
{city only} (Costs 3 shields/labor)

Any "Retail Business" can be expanded into a "Chain Retail Business" for an additional cost of 2 shield/labor which removes the 6 product max (so if the city was size 14 a "retail business" only allows you to sell 6 product at a bonus, but a "chain retail business" would allow you to sell 14)

If you have currently own a retail business you may declare the type it is this turn and it will be fully operational this trading session. (Ie, GhengisFarb has 3 Taverns, 2 Shoppes. Kloreep has 1 Shoppe. notyoueither has 1 Tavern and 1 Shoppe. UnOrthOdOx has 1 Shoppe.) NOTE that the old "Tavern" is now an "Eatery"

When built, you must choose the type of "retail business" it is:

1) "Shoppe" -bonus applies to commerce (same as current Shoppe)
2) "Eatery" -bonus applies to food (same as current Tavern)
3) "Tavern" -bonus applies to food AND alcohol, but must sell at least 1 of each to receive bonus
4) "Bar" -bonus applies to alcohol
5) "Steak House" bonus only applies to Beef (food from tiles with the Cattle resource) but bonus is 75%, not 50%
6) "Hardware Store" 50% bonus applies to shields and halfShields.
7) "Specialty Shoppe" bonus applies to a specific type of commerce (ie, Horses, Dye, Spice, etc) and only that commerce receives the bonus, but the bonus is 75%, not 50%

Any Shoppe, Hardware Store, or Specialty Shoppe in a city with a Marketplace receives an additional 25% bonus, or 75/100% total bonus.

You can cease operations for 1 trading session and convert from one type of "retail business" to another type for a cost of 1 shield/labor.


OTHER BUILDINGS
INN {city only} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Requires Eatery, Tavern, Bar, and/or Steakhouse in city chosen.
Increases bonus on product sold in Eateries, Taverns, Bars and Steakhouses owned by player in city to 100%.
An Inn requires 1 local labor to operate.

Any Inn can be expanded into an Inn Chain in a specific city for an additional cost of 3 shield/labor which removes the 6 product max (so if the city was size 14 an "inn" only allows you to sell 6 product at a bonus, but an "inn chain" would allow you to sell 14)
An Inn Chain requires 1 local labor to operate.


STOREHOUSE {city or estate} (Costs 2 shields/labor) stores up to 20 commodities (including food). NOTE: you may store up to 10 nonfood items(shields/commerce) in addition to/instead of this 20 storage.


BREWERY {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Allows up to 4 labor to convert up 2 food into 2 Ale {Changed name from mead to ale} per labor (1 to 1 conversion).
And/or convert up 2 Grain(only source is Wheat) into 2 Beer (1 to 1 conversion). Beer sells at 30% bonus.
1) Breweries may only sell their product in a city which contains the source Brewery in its radius, or is connected to the source Brewery by railroad.
2) Until the discovery of Electricity, Ale and Beer MUST be sold the turn after it is produced, it cannot be stored.

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

Breweries may only sell their product to cities they are in the radius of until the construction of railroad. (So Duff Brewery can only sell alcohol to Tassagrad and Termina)

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

All alcohol can be sold on either the food OR commerce markets, and is calculated with the alcohol subDemand bonus.

Note that the only forseeable sources of wheat are American territory to the north and Uber Isle to the south.


DISTILLERY{city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 Sugar into 2 Rum
Rum sells at 50% bonus.
The sugar must be in the Distillery's possesion at the beginning of the trading session.
Like Wine, Rum can be sold anywhere in the Market and can be stored.

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

NOTE: Sugar can only be grown in select markets, on grassland and in replacement of food. You must state during the trading session that you are growing sugar instead of food and the sugar can be sold at the end of the session on the commerce market or stored.

So basically Rum is the most profitable but requires the most coordination to produce.[/color]


WIND MILL {city or estate} ( Costs 5 shields/labor)
Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 grain into 2 flour per labor. Flour sells on the food market at a 50% bonus.


BAKERY {city only} (Costs 4 shields/labor)
Allows up to 4 labor to convert up 2 food into 4 Snacks per labor (1 to 2 conversion).
And/or convert up 2 flour into 6 Pasteries per labor (1 to 3 conversion).

Snacks sell on the commerce market with no bonus. Pasteries sell on the commerce market with a 50% bonus.
Both Snacks and Pasteries may be sold through Shoppes and recieve the Shoppe bonus.


LUMBER MILL {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Requires tile to have river access.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 shield into 2 half-shields per labor. Half-shields function exactly like shields but sell at half the price, representing crafted construction supplies. (Your turning logs (used to build log cabins) into lumber (thinner strips of wood))


RACE TRACK {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Requires 1 labor to operate per every 4 horses and must run at least 2 horses.
Generates 1 commerce per pop of cities with the racetrack in their radius for each labor required and that commerce is considered sold at D:S. The commerce IS considered part of the supply in the D:S calculation (it was from the Pop's disposable income).

(Example if you are running 4 horses, 1 labor, 1 commerce for each pop. Running 5 horses, requires 2 labor, generates 2 commerce for each pop.)

Each horse must come from a different player, no player can enter more than one horse per racetrack. Its up to the racetrack owner on how they want to compensate or hire players to enter horses or amount of purse if offered.

Race results will be determined by a Commisioner who CANNOT enter any horses.

Horses (commerce generated from tiles with the Horse resource) sell on the commerce market with a 30% bonus to final sale price.
Note that currently the only source of horses is notyoueither.
Horses can be kept on any tile that produces a food and as long as only one horse is kept on each tile it has no effect on the tiles food production. For each pair of horses on the same tile, 1 food is consumed.


PAPER MILL {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
Requires tile to have river access.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 shield into 2 paper per labor. Paper sells on the commerce market.


BINDERY {city or estate} (Costs 3 shields/labor)
Representing scribes before the printing press

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 paper into 1 book (or 2 pamphlets) per labor. Books and Pamphlets sell in the commerce market with the Literature subDemand. Books sell at 150% D/S and Pamphlets sell at 75% of D/S.


PRINTER {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
A Binder can be upgraded after the discovery of the Printing Press for 2 shields/labor.

A Printer basically doubles what a labor can do versus a Bindery.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 paper into 2 books (or 4 pamphlets) per labor. Books and Pamphlets sell in the commerce with the Literature subDemand.


Literature subDemand is equal to the market's pop x the literacy rate with an additional +1 added for each library and university in the market. As long as the subDemand is not met, all "literature" products sell at a 50% bonus.[/quote]
I'd be all about a Banana Press making Banana parchement but Jungle tiles jsut don't produce much.



To build a building in a city you must hire at least one labor from that city. Additional labor may be brought in from any noble's estate, but the first labor must be from the city or local authorities will not allow any construction on your building to take place.

The only building that will be "useable" the turn its built is Storehouse. All others technically use the turn to alter/sell products and should be in existence at the beginning of the turn to generate benefits.




ADDITIONAL RULES
Trade proposals
Solution 1:
The solution is generalized and is:

The nobles specify the amount of the commodity they want to sell/buy and their minimum/maximum price. The price they receive will be equal to the calculated D:S unless D:S is lower/higher than the minimum price in which case the commodity is not sold/bought.

example:
Market Assesment 4:4=$100
OneGuy offers one commerce and sets a minimum price of $70
SecondGuy offers two commerce and sets a minimum price of $0
ThirdGuy offers one commerce and sets a minimum price of $40

The turn is closed. Final D:S=4:8=$50


We are leaving the Grace Period at 15 turns but operate under the original
rules that you can buy unowned tiles after you have paid off your debt. And you can borrow
money to buy up to 3 new tiles if their total value is less than $1000 or as much as you need
on one tile. (nye- if you make $301 this
turn you can pay off your debt and be eligible to bid on tiles with a government loan)

NO CHANGE TO THE BASE RATE, BUT WE INCLUDE THE PRODUCTION OF UNOWNED TILES IN THE CITY SUPPLY.

We eliminate local vassals, leaving the only source of labor pop from cities and vassals
bought from auctions.



CONSTRUCTION STATUS

Franses has built 4 of ? on a building in a city/estate.
Kloreep has built 1 of 2 on Storehouse on his Estate


COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS (Active during this session)
APOLYTON
GhengisFarb owns a Tavern in Apolyton
notyoueither owns a Tavern in Apolyton
Kloreep owns a Tavern in Apolyton

GhengisFarb owns a Shoppe in Apolyton
notyoueither owns a Shoppe in Apolyton


BHQ
GhengisFarb owns a Tavern in BHQ

GhengisFarb owns a Shoppe in BHQ


TASSAGRAD
GhengisFarb owns a Tavern in Tassagrad

GhengisFarb owns a Shoppe in Tassagrad


TERMINA
Epistax owns a Tavern? in Termina

UnOrthOdOx owns a Shoppe in Termina


RURAL HOLDINGS
GhengisFarb owns a Storehouse on tile 026 BHQ N (mountain)
GhengisFarb owns a Brewery on tile Termina ene (grassland formerly known as jungle),
GhengisFarb owns a Brewery on tile BHQ N "Ghengis Mountain"

Kloreep owns a Storehouse on tile 006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd)

UnOrthOdOx owns a Lumber Mill on 013 Termina NE1 (jungle)

=OttimusCeasar= owns a Storehouse on tile 022 Tassagrad NW (jungle)

[UnOrthOdOx]

My estates:

Cash: 691, 900 debt

Stockpile: 2 shield, 3 half shield, 1 commerce


Ghangis, What save is this for?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Player Updates (440 AD)


The players currently produce 75 food, 55 shields, 65 commerce, and 2 horses per turn.

STOCKPILES:
adaMada ( 4 halfShields)
Captain ( 2 shields)
Darkness'Edge ( 4 shields, 4 commerce)
Epistax ( 1 shield, 5 commerce)
GhengisFarb ( 7 shields, 3 commerce, 1 halfShield, 8 ale)
jdd2007 ( 1 shield, 5 commerce)
Spiffor ( 10 shields, 5 commerce)
UnOrthOdOx ( 2 shields, 1 commerce, 3 halfShields)


PRODUCTION: If I've made a mistake let me know.
adaMada (2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce)

Captain (2 food, 1 shield, 2 commerce)

civman2000 (2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce)

Darkness' Edge (4 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce)

Duddha (7 food, 1 shield, 5 commerce)

Epistax (4 food, 1 shield, 2 commerce)

Frances (NO HOLDINGS)

GhengisFarb (15{17} food, 7 shields, 6{8} commerce) {French Occupied}

jdd2007 (6 food, 1 shield, 5 commerce)

Jonny (4 food, 3 shields, 4 commerce)

Kloreep (4 food, 3 shields, 2 commerce)

Kramerman (NO HOLDINGS)

Nimitz (3 food, 1 shield, 3 commerce)

notyoueither (5 food, 2 shields, 2 commerce, 2 horses)

=OttomusCeasar= (5 food, 1 shield, 2 commerce)

rendelnep (2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce)

Shiek (NO HOLDINGS)

skywalker (NO HOLDINGS)

Spiffor (1 food, 2 shields, 1 commerce)

UnOrthOdOx (7 food, 2 shields, 3 commerce)

[UnOrthOdOx]

THX

[UnOrthOdOx]

Looking to hire 3 vassal @ $25 ea.
Declare my Shoppe in Termina a Paper Specialty Store.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Looking to hire 3 vassal @ $25 ea.
Declare my Shoppe in Termina a Paper Specialty Store.

Are you bidding on the four new vassals or trying to hire a player's vassals?


The way I see it is: You have 4 vassals, a lumber mill, and produce 2 shields. You could have 1 vassal each turn convert your 2 shields into 4 halfShields, and have the other 3 vassals use 3 of the 4 halfShields to build on something until you get the Paper Mill and Bindery Running. If I was you I leave the Shoppe a Shoppe until all the Paper stuff was done as you could sell your commerce at the 50% bonus until then.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I was looking to hire, not bidding. Want to see how much people are bidding on them first.

I have 2 shield in stockpile, 3 half shield in stockpile, and 2 shield in production according to our discussion in the other thread. 4 vassals and one hired work 5 of those to build paper press, 2 hired work 2 shield in lumber mill.

I thought we had to declare that THIS turn. If not, I will keep it a shoppe till next.

[Nimitz]

Banana Pastures , Turn 10.  Admin: Nimitiz
Holdings: 
     Tile 031, NW Banana HQ, 2/1/2
     Gotham SE, 1/0/1
Buildings:
     None
Stockpile: 0+0 food    0+0 shields    0+0 commerce
Production:  3 food      1 shields      3 commerce
Cash Change: $0
     0    Selling
     0    Buying
Current Cash: $632     Debt: 0 ()
Selling:
     3 Food  @ min $40 each
     3 Comm  @ min $40 each
     0 shield @ min $40 each
Buying:
     2 shield @ max $100
     3 Labor from BHQ

Building Retail Buisness at BHQ

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I thought we had to declare that THIS turn. If not, I will keep it a shoppe till next.

Yes, you would have to declare it this turn, but it will take you 1 turn for the Paper Mill, another turn for the Bindery/Printer, and another turn to paper into Pamphlets. That's 3 turns before you could sell anything in the Speciality Shoppe, while you could get a 50% bonus on your commerce for those 2 turns and use the third turn to convert for 1 labor/shield.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Paper sells on the Commerce Market. Could I not declare this a paper store, to have the bonus come into effect NEXT turn when I make paper, then convert to a BOOK store later? (do I NEED to convert to a book store? or is 'paper products' all of them combined?)

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Paper sells on the Commerce Market. Could I not declare this a paper store, to have the bonus come into effect NEXT turn when I make paper, then convert to a BOOK store later? (do I NEED to convert to a book store? or is 'paper products' all of them combined?)

It takes a whole turn to produce a finished product, meaning its available for sale at the beginning of the turn after it was produced. I had to build a brewery, then on the next turn produce ale, then on the third turn sell it.

So if you make the Paper Mill, next turn you can produce paper, then the turn after you can sell it on the market. The only exception is if you were filling an order for another player in which case they take possesion at the end of the turn so that they can sell it at the beginning of the next turn. Does that make sense?

It takes a while to produce the first product, but once you have an established supply line coming in and being converted you should have a steady streamof product to sell, it requires more investment and effort but generates a higher profit.

On the bright side, there's not much demand right now. Only 1 out of 20 pop can read and there's no demand from libraries or universities because we've never built any. But by the time your up and running we should have built some libraries and that will raise the literacy rate also.

[UnOrthOdOx]

OK. Reguarding the TYPE of specialty store though. Are all paper products considered ONE specialty, or do I have to change again for books?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
OK. Reguarding the TYPE of specialty store though. Are all paper products considered ONE specialty, or do I have to change again for books?

I'd say you could build a Newstand that sells pamphlets at a 75% bonus, a Bookstore that sells books at a 75% bonus or just sell everything through a Shoppe. Beleive me, I'm looking at an Ale Shop that only sells ale at a 75% bonus or an Inn for that 100% bonus.

If I was choosing I'd say go with the bookstore as it will be a while before there is a large market.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I am more worried of the PAPER before I get the bindery...I guess I can just sell that through my regular shoppe, though.

Another Q. Can there be a shoppe and a Specialty shoppe in the same city. IE can I build bookstores in the other cities as demand is likely going to be rather low for some time, and I would need to spread sales throughout the towns to not overburden the D/S of the literacy sub demand (if I am thinking that through correctly)

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I am more worried of the PAPER before I get the bindery...I guess I can just sell that through my regular shoppe, though.

Another Q. Can there be a shoppe and a Specialty shoppe in the same city. IE can I build bookstores in the other cities as demand is likely going to be rather low for some time, and I would need to spread sales throughout the towns to not overburden the D/S of the literacy sub demand (if I am thinking that through correctly)

Literature is a market subDemand, not a local one, so a Bookstore can sell the cities' pop at a bonus but affects the entire market not just that city. I guess people travel to buy your books.