OFFICIAL: Science Minister: Plan Erudition

[Thud]

Judging by the general positive reaction to my previous thread, I have decided to open an expanded Plan Erudition to voting by the public.

This is the plan, in step by step order:

1. Begin construction of new Palance and FP befor end of Persian war
2. Switch to Republic
3. Construct Libraries in Macross City, Tassagrad, Termina, Banana HQ, DelMonte, and HereItIs.
4. Construct Universities in at least half of those cities.
5. Annex America rapidly (which means republic won't really matter)
6. Increase science rate to X% (a number greater than 10)
7. Research straight to Democracy
8. Switch to Democracy

Thanks to Togas and Arnelos for their opinion.

Poll Closes in Three (3) Days

[GhengisFarb™]

THIS WAS POSTED FIRST IN THE ORIGINAL SCIENCE CITY SITE THREAD, BUT SINCE I'M NOT CURRENTLY A DIA MEMBER IT DOESN"T COUNT.

Actually these are the prime science city locations as they have that extra income per tile coming from the river.

1) Ghengistown - 18 tiles are river tiles (shares 2 with Timeline)

2) Macross City - 17 tiles are river tiles (shares 4 with Rheims)

3) Timeline - 16 tiles are river tiles (shares 2 with Ghengistown)

4) City on a Hill - 16 tiles are river tiles, many hill and mountain tiles

5) Rheims - 16 tiles are river tiles (shares 4 with Macross City)

6) Gaia - 11 tiles are river tiles, several dyes

7) Del Monte - 11 tiles are river tiles

I wouldn't waste science on Here It Is, that should be more of a production city and Del Monte is kind of a "blah" city.

Del Monte, the city of blah.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Normally, as a warmonger, I would be against Democracy.

However, in our current situation we need it.

We are religious and can switch to something else easily should war come.
We are not likely to be looking for war for some time (at least till Cavalry) as we simply cannot produce and sustain that effort in our current state.
It will let us cut this jungle down with the greatest of ease.

As much as it goes against my traditional playing style, I agree, though I would throw in Markets before Universities. And I agree with Ghengis's assessment of the cities.

Apolyton, Termina, BananaHQ are not exactly big gold producers.

[Aggie]

This plan makes sense, thought I do agree with Ghengis's points. One thing is I do want a war with France probably right after our GA. This war would be quick and fatal for the French. This is the only war I forsee before calvary. One major purpose of this war would be to reduce consolidate in the west and connect cherbough to our great empire(thus having us stretch from sea to sea which is our destiny). However the force planned should be able to accomplish this goal and we should be able to do it in republic.(also I want this before gunpowder so knights can accomplish it) Maybe we'll get saltpeter or the land where it will be, also this will increase our chance of oil in the future.
Another point is this, we should build cathedrals first so we have few unhappiness problems. Like I said elsewhere a city with temple/cathedral is good until 11 with our lux and to 12 with the ivory we import(but lets not assume that ivory to be safe). So once we get cathedral our cities can exploded giving us more weath AND science ANd production. We have a wonderful combo with sistine/pyramids/religious.
Aggie

[Shiber]

Wouldn't it be better to build marketplaces instead of libraries?
Think about it this way: suppose we are directing 10% to science and the rest to economy. Now, suppose that if we build marketplaces in some of our most productive cities (commerce-wise) we'll be getting the same income with just 70% directed to economy as we got before building marketplaces and with 90% directed to economy. Then we'll be able to raise science to 30%, thus tripling the rate of research while still making the same amount of gold as before.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Thud.

I really hate to do this to you...

I give you the option:
Declare this poll invalid yourself, or meet me in court.

Options one and three on the poll are not impartial as required in the CoL under the regulations on polling.

Here we go: From the CoL:

Fairness and Neutrality:
The first post in a poll thread should be completely neutral. No options are to be suggested for voting, just what each option entails in an unbiased format. The same is true for the voting options. While poking fun at an option will probably be acceptable, if someone thinks that it interferes with a voter’s decision, then they may deem it invalid. If you show bias in your options, then it is no longer fair. So be warned, if your poll is a landslide one way and should win but someone feels that the options you presented are unfair and calls for a validity vote, if it’s deemed invalid your poll is useless.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Thud.

I really hate to do this to you...

I give you the option:
Declare this poll invalid yourself, or meet me in court.

Options one and three on the poll are not impartial as required in the CoL under the regulations on polling.

Well, he's right...

[Shiber]

I'll make this simpler. The numbers are only sample values and are not derived from the game.

City A produces 20 commerce. The slider is at 10% science, 90% economy. 2 commerce are directed to science and produce 2 beakers. Income from the city is 18 gold.
After building a library, City A still produces 20 commerce but the 2 commerce that are directed to science produce 3 beakers.
If we build a marketplace instead, City A will give us an income of 27 gold and a science output of 2. If we change the sliders to 40% science, 60% economy our income from City A will return to 18 gold but the science output will jump to 8 beakers (since 8 commerce will be directed to science).

Again, this is just an example. Furthermore, I'm not saying we'll be able to move the science slider to 40% after we build marketplaces without hurting our economy since we're only going to build marketplaces in the cities that produce the most commerce, and they'll have an effect only on income from those cities, not from our entire empire.
Still, I think it proves that at this point, building marketplaces is more cost-effective than building libraries.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Aggie
Like I said elsewhere a city with temple/cathedral is good until 11 with our lux and to 12 with the ivory we import(but lets not assume that ivory to be safe).

I'm afraid I don't understand your math.
Cities have 1 free content citizen. With temple, that's 2 content citizens. With Cathedral, that's 8 (thanks to the Sistine Chapel, of course). With our 4 luxuries (assuming we'll gain control of Arbela and its spices the next turnchat) we'll get 8 content citizens and 4 happy citizens. Since disorder only happens when a city has more unhappy citizens then happy citizens, this leaves room for 4 additional unhappy citizens, allowing us to grow up to 16.
Alternatively, if we gain control over another luxury we can reach size 12 (2 content after free and temple, 5 happy and 5 unhappy citizens), which is the limit until we build hospitals. Unfortunately, the 5th luxury (probably Ivory) doesn't appear to be in our grasp.
Am I right or did I miss any facts or got my numbers wrong?

[joncnunn]

Too big a question.

1A. Forbidden Palace : If location already has a Court House, Temple, and Catherdial, and Aquaduct if needed, Yes. Otherwise No.

1B. New Palace : Only if location has the above + Market Place & Libary.

2. Yes

3. Libaries after Temple, Market Places, and Catherdrials.

4. Universitys after the above plus the Bank if we buy this tech first.

5. Yes! Trigure Golden Age during it.

6. Yes.

7. Yes.

8. Yes.

As for Libaries vs Market Places. We need both. The prefered order though is Market Place first, followed by Libary with the exception of Scientific civs which should build the half cost Libary first.

Also because we are religious, we should build the half cost Catherdrials before Libaries.

[Aggie]

Shiber your right I was thinking total # of affected citizens. Your analysis is right and much better I was generally thinkong of a 12 limit on pop for a while too, ok enough excuses I was lazy. Also I agree that this poll is invalid, oh well it was largely just advisory anyway and even if it was official it wouldn't have bound the cp to do as ordered. Also I'm disappointed that nobody called my french idea wormongering or murderous or just plain unnecceasry. I thought the very mention would at least guarentee some rotten tomatoes from the extreme peace segment. Oh well I will guess I'll have to wait till I post the plan for public review after the american campaign.
Aggie

[Thud]

I declare this poll COMPLETELY UNOFFICAL Unortho is quite right. THIS THREAD IS NOW INTENDED FOR DISCUSSION ON THE PLAN BEFORE SENDING IT FOR VOTING IN AN OFFICIAL THREAD.

[Arnelos]

Aggie,

I think your comment was overlooked because everyone was more concerned with the more immediate concerns... however, don't think (especially since you've pointed it out) that it will forever go unoticed