Prerequisites for Republic

[roadcage]

Actually, once the Persian "problem" is dealt with, we will have 4 controlled luxuries and 1 imported luxury. Hence all but Uber Isle is ready as soon as the Persian campaign is over. One possibility for Uber:making workers to hold pop down, road connect all cities, repatriate to mainland to clear jungle. Meanwhile get a Harbor in AGC. Then beg borrow steam whatever the requisite techs and go Republic.

[DAVOUT]

Zeit,
The exact process of the reduction of WW is not known by us ; the only sure thing is that it does not desappear after a fix number of days. According to the experiences described by experienced players, it can be harmful even after 20 turns of peace.
Among the interesting things I learned in the above mentionned thread, is that all deaths in war increase the WW.

[Aggie]

In most of my experience the turn the war ends the war weariness no longer effects the happiness of the people. So in my experiece the second we make peace with perisa war weariness no longer makes people unhappy. On the other hand if we go into war immediately it would blow up like a nuke, ie it only rears its head when in war. I have seen this many many times and alway switch all entertainers and lower luxuries immediately an unhappiness is no issue. The war wearniness is still present as a number somewhere(though it reduces significantly after 5 turns), BUT it doesn't make people unhappy UNLESS you go into war. That is why telling somebody to move out of your territory immediately after a war is bad,bad since you will go back to the full war weariness.
Aggie

[zeit]

So, according to Aggie, we should switch to Republic as soon as we have peace with America (or wipe them out completely), i guess this goes well with Shiber's 1st plan, which should be worked out, as i said, to something we can vote and agree upon.

[joncnunn]

As soon as we sign all peace treaties, WW will have no visible affects.

It will come back into play if we go to war again quickly, but a 1 turn American annexation would be too fast for war werrious to have any affect as we'd be back at peace before the turn ended.

Even a 2 or 3 turn American war can be dealt with with entertainers for the turns if we need them.

It is economic advantegous to switch if the additional commerce results in more gold than the support costs.

With a Golden Age at the same time, Market Places can be rush built where needed with the income to further boost it.

[Arnelos]

All in all, I have to agree with the general consensus of this thread... those of us in favor of switching to republic need to figure when the best time is and what *exactly* needs to be done to get there.

That said, I'm waiting on Reddawg's report about the economics of monarchy-vs-republic for our empire... that should hopefully (if he does, in fact, make such a report) clear up a lot of the confusion about the economic aspects of the switch and what needs to be done.

Regarding the war weariness and luxuries issues, my experience is consistent with Aggie's... I have played MANY MANY MANY wars as a republic (I generally war monger as a republic - not switching to democracy unless I have enough police stations) and have consistently found that the population suddenly bursts into "We Love the..." days if I forget to lower my luxuries or reduce entertainers when I end the war. If I immediately go back to war, the population immediately goes back into revolt. So I would say Aggie's right about that one. In other words... we can literally switch 1 turn after the war ends and not worry too much. The big question then is how bad the war weariness would be for the supposedly 1-turn war with America.

As for Uber Isle, I have to agree that all we need to do is use entertainers until we get Astronomy... no big loss. The extra trade gained on the mainland will MORE than make up for it. I've been arguing (in another thread) that we need to dramatically increase our number of workers... if we used Uber Isle for this purpose, all the better (what a happy coincidence)

The only nagging issue is the economic one. I'd like to see what Reddawg finds when he looks at whether the extra trade made in republic will make up for the extra expenses of having to pay for our military and other financial issues. If that issue makes republic better than monarchy, then I think it's a done deal. The only issue then is whether we go to republic after Persia or after America.

P.S. Anyone else notice the lag on poly been absolutely unbearable today? It's really odd... today is the only day I've had this problem, but the server is timing out so much I'm having trouble reading and posting before I lose the server again...

[GePap]

If a Republic would increase our income by 100 lpt, then it is worth it, since we have under 100 units currently, and we have to remember the greater growth of population that having the Pyramids will mean for our civ. On a grassland tile with road, thats 3 Lytons more for each point of population under a republic.

[Shiber]

Note that the top post has been updated.
It's been a very good discussion so far. I'm still waiting to hear more people though.
Here is an interesting thread about war weariness.

[zeit]

So, how about posting a poll about this, Shiber, with "plan1" "plan2" and "non of the above", or you wish to wait for some kind of report regarding the benefits the tranisition?

[Shiber]

I would personally prefer to let the discussion continue so that we can hear more suggestions (as well as definite information about war weariness).

[E_T]

As soon as.......

As soon as the following is met:

1) Persian War is over.
2) All captured Cities are no longer Resisting. A resisting City has a better chance of flipping during Anarchy, even for part of a turn.

As soon as possible after that, IMHO.

E_T

[Shiber]

joncnunn: you're absolutely right. You've also confirmed my thoughts regarding WW. I experienced the same effect (war weariness has no visible effect once peace is reached) myself numerous times.
I've also been browsing and searching through the Civ 3 forums and it seems that this is correct. Therefore, the war-related prerequisite for Republic should be 'no current wars' and 'no prolonged wars are planned'.

[Arnelos]

Don't know if you guys heard about the turnchat earlier tonight or not, but Washington was caputured by the Aztecs...

*IF* this means we go to war with America immediately (or ASAP), then we'll want to switch to republic after the wars with Persia and America are both done (as you said, when there are no wars and no long wars pending).

Just thought I'd give you an FYI

[joncnunn]

Yes, if we are going to war with America without a break, we need to delay our change to Republic until right after America is annexed and we are done fighting Persia. This may affect when we want our Golden Age as well.

I've just started to read up on the events.