The Real Political Poll

[Duddha]

I'm not suprised the DIA has sizable support. The hawk party is a rightist party while the DIA is a center-left party, attraching more moderate support. The Imperialist party used to be the center-right party but it no longer exists.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Duddha
I'm not suprised the DIA has sizable support. The hawk party is a rightist party while the DIA is a center-left party, attraching more moderate support. The Imperialist party used to be the center-right party but it no longer exists.

Very true, and that would easily account for the large difference in support.

This also begs the question of why a party (either a new center-right party or a moderation of the Hawk party) has not taken advantage of the void...

[Sean]

Actually, there is nothing left nor right about wanting to improve infrasturucture and persue science and commenrce over war. If I had to put a political label to it, the DIA is rather Libertarian, but I can not even claim this, because the means to this ends is dictated by the game design, as to make such political analysis unintelligible.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I'm suprised to find The Apolytonian Racial Elitists (ARE) have 5 supporters while the The Hawk Party only has 9. How is it these 9 have been able to lead Apolytonia on the warpath for so long while the 22 members of The Democratic Industrialists of Apolyton (DIA) cower in fear unable to accomplish even the smallest of their party's goals?

Seriously, how is this possible?

EDIT: Wait a minute, maybe all of the Hawk members are from Florida. That's it, they just don't know how to vote.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Sean
Actually, there is nothing left nor right about wanting to improve infrasturucture and persue science and commenrce over war. If I had to put a political label to it, the DIA is rather Libertarian, but I can not even claim this, because the means to this ends is dictated by the game design, as to make such political analysis unintelligible.

"Right" and "left" mean different things in different contexts and different settings. The mistake many people make when they go from their own society and observe another is to confuse why the other society refers to things as "leftist" which in the observer's society would be viewed as "right", "center" or something altogether different... So while "left" and "right" don't even mean the same things from one country to the next... why should we expect them to mean the same thing in Apolytonia as they do in any *one* RL country?

In this case, "right" and "left" are being utilized as labels for "warrior" and "builder". This is actually rather appropriate, as the principle difference between playing styles which has expressed itself politically in the democracy game is between warriors and builders. The assignment of warriors to the "right" and builders to the "left" is admitedly arbitrary, though it does bear some resemblance to some of our connotative attachments to the term "left" in real life, as "leftists" have something of greater reputation for pacifism in many countries (though FAR from all, as "left" can denote militism as well - depends on the context...).

So I think the use of the terms "right" and "left" is actually quite appropriate, as we aren't using them to define our "right" and "left" to mean the same thing as any one RL society's "right" and "left", but rather using them the same way they are used in RL... to (fairly)arbitrarily refer to a spectrum of different perspectives with an easily understood lexicon which makes clear where one stands on the spectrum ("center-left", "center", "right", "center-right", "left").

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I'm suprised to find The Apolytonian Racial Elitists (ARE) have 5 supporters while the The Hawk Party only has 9. How is it these 9 have been able to lead Apolytonia on the warpath for so long while the 22 members of The Democratic Industrialists of Apolyton (DIA) cower in fear unable to accomplish even the smallest of their party's goals?

Seriously, how is this possible?

EDIT: Wait a minute, maybe all of the Hawk members are from Florida. That's it, they just don't know how to vote.

The answer is actually, I think, rather simple. There are a high number of pragmatists in Apolytonia that either are members of *neither* party or are the more pragmatic members of one party or the other. Because the war with Persia seems to have broad-based support for *practical* reasons of Apolytonia's power interests, much of both the independent electorate as well as the more pragmatic-minded (as opposed to committed pacifist) parts of the DIA have joined with the Hawks in supporting the war.

As such, what few committed pacifists that do exist are overwhelmed in number by an unusual alliance of hawks, independents, and pragmatic builders.

I expect the situation would be quite reversed if the hawks were to suggest fighting a war that was NOT in Apolytonia's power interests to fight (such as proposing that we fight all of our neighbors AT THE SAME TIME or something equally preposterous). The situation may also reverse itself soon if the hawks oppose switching much of our production over to courthouses, libraries, etc... a switch that seems to have very broad-based support.

In short, the number of *committed* pacifists and *committed* warmongers is really VERY small... they're both overwhelming outnumbered by the number of pragmatists which will take whichever course of action seems wiser at the moment .

[ManicStarSeed]

well said Arnelos

[Odin]

I WANT PEACE
I WANT PEACE
WE ALL WANT PEACE




A mesage brought to you by the Democratic Industrialists of Aploytonia

[Arnelos]

[SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC]

oh my... you want an example of the true diversity of people apparently welcome in the DIA and how amazingly odd it is that we get along? Here you go...

Here's Odin's sig:

All I'm sayin' is give peace a chance!!!
A proud member of the Democratic Industrialists of Apolytonia!
A proud member of the Green Party in real life.
SAVE THE RAINFORESTS!!! STOP GLOBALIZATION!!! KILL PRESIDENT BUSH!!! THE ATHIESTS SHALL RULE THE WORLD!!!

To give you an idea of the true breadth of people apparently welcome in the DIA party, here's my views on the same issues:

1. I have become something of a foreign policy "neo-realist", though my background is certainly more liberal than realist (I love the UN, for instance)... I've just been pretty darn convinced by much of the neo-realist argument in college. As Teddy Roosevelt said:

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safetey-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." (emphasis mine)

2. Oddly enough, I too am a member of DIA... fancy that

3. I am not only a member of the Republican Party in real life, I'm currently a campaign worker (though for likely the most liberal republican in congress )

4. Isn't "save the rainforests" cute? I honestly don't have a problem with this line, it sounds something like a politician saying "I'm in favor of mom and apple pie!"... great! so?

5. As for globalization, I'm as pro-free trade and pro-globalization as they come, in fact a very staunch supporter of the free movement of goods across borders ("otherwise, soldiers will" - Bastiat). It should be noted that globalization is much more a social/economic/political force than a politically driven policy or ideology... the odd thing about it is that no-one controls it and it would also be extremely painful to attempt to stop it. In addition, I personally know many people that work at the World Bank headquarters here in Washington - my childhood best friend's parents, among others. As for these "protestors" here in DC this weekend, it's extremely telling that they got about ONE TENTH the numbers they had 2 years ago... the movement lost all steam almost as soon as it came out of the gate... the organization's title of "the Anti-Capitalist Convergence" is a telling example of why they lost so much support and why no-one here in Washington is listening to them...

6. As for "kill president bush"... well, my last name is Bush (no direct relation, though)

7. I could honestly care less about whether athiests or believers "rule the world" - as long as they respect a freedom of conscience.

So, in short, it's pretty cool that we find ourselves in the same DIA, no? As much as any of us can strongly disagree on politics in real life, we can end up working side by side in Apolytonia... perhaps (at least here), and I'm taking a big stretch here, we can sometimes "give peace a chance"....

[/SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC]

[Duddha]

This poll still has some time left, lets see if we've missed anyboby.

[Meshelic]

In light of an upcoming election, perhaps another poll can be brought forward, possibly going along the lines of

Democratic Industrialists
Hawk Party
Independent
Abstain/Banana

[Meshelic]

Mostly just to see which party lines people vote along, if any. but also to see how much the forum has expanded as of late.

[Arnelos]

Meshelic... there is a poll with that... I'll bump it back up