The Persian Iron Puzzle

[BigFurryMonster]

So. The Persians have Iron. What are we going to do about it?

First, how can we tell that they have Iron? Well, in the Diplo screen, the "Iron" option does not show up in the screen, meaning that they do not need it. Also, our Military guy tells us they have Iron-specific units (see below).

Second, why should we do something about it? It has been said before, but I'll repeat: with Iron, Persia can build Immortals. Oh yeah, and Pikemen.

What is there to be done? To answer this: ask the question: where do they get it from? Assuming that the Iron source near Antioch has not been connected yet, the only option is trade.

We can't see any anchor symbols in their cities (we should see them even when our map is outdated - see for example the Roman city of Pompeii). So - no harbo(u)rs.

The trade screen shows that they have deals with England and Germany, and possible deals with France, Rome and Greece.
To conduct a trade, the capitols must be connected through non-enemy territory. The only way they would be able to pull this off, is:

1) Connection Persia - England
2) Connection England - Germany
3) Connection Germany - Greece
4) Connection Greece - France
5) Connection France - Rome

ad 1) There are two possible/existing roads:
1a) connection Persepolis-Tarsus-Oxford-Arbela-Hastings
1b) connection Persepolis-Arbela via the lands east of Pasargadae, then to Hastings

If 1a) does not exist (i.e. Oxford is not connected), we can destroy this option easily by pillaging a piece of 1b)'s road ..!

ad 2) Probably between Brighton and Nuremberg.

ad 3) Probably between Cologne and Ephesus.

ad 4) Sparta - Lyons probably, but not via Macross territories.

ad 5) Euh... Djion - Brundisium ?? Quite a long way. Maybe via some Russian cities.


Interesting point: The Persians cannot trade with the Aztecs, with Russia or the Iroquois. There seem to be no roads to connect their capitols OR they have nothing to trade to each other.


I'll repeat:
If Oxford is not connected, we can destroy their trade by pillaging a piece of road somewhere east of Pasargadae.


Thank you for your attention. Please feel free to comment on this puzzle.

[Aggie]

I am plannign on pillaging that road, if the east route is the one, well thats a different matter and if ther capital get islotated and they still get iron I call shenanigans on the AI.
Aggie

[Arnelos]

Good work on that Big Furry Monster! When I play Civ3, I don't think I've *ever* gone to the trouble to see which individual *roads* the AI was using for its trade routes as a component of strategy... I guess this is one of the many ways it helps to have 20-50 people putting their brains together on 5 turn sequences at a time for playing the game, eh?

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Arnelos
When I play Civ3, I don't think I've *ever* gone to the trouble to see which individual *roads* the AI was using for its trade routes as a component of strategy...

Depending on the strategy you are using, it becomes necessary.
I have spent numerous moments (seems like hours) scheming on how I was going to get that last bit of road connecting their capitol to rubber so the AI couldn't draft and rush infantry.

Capitol Isolation dictates it as a strategy.

That is the nice things about nukes. It only takes one to compleatly isolate a capitol and piss off all its trading partners because the AI civ can no longer trade what it said it would.

Mss

[kring]

They could have had a new source pop up as well. This source may be under one of their cities if that happened.

Has anyone (I am not at home ATM) checked the map using the Control Shift M option and looking at Persia's territory to see if there are Iron deposits that may be connected that way? Also, if the Iron popped up outside a city and we don't have a current map of Persia, then we wouldn't know about it.

[XOR]

I found them, they were there all the time, it's just that they speak German.

Look, we may be at war with Persia. But German merchants have friends within our troops, they let said German merchants pass trough our territory freely. This way, German merchants can travel trough Napoleton, to Geofront, where they take the Tyrean interstate and enter Persian territory.

Now that we know what the problem is, we have 2 choices:

1- We command our troops to not allow a single German merchant to go trough our territory. This would mean a hostile stance towards Germany and would involve a declaration of war against Germany.

2- We ask one of the German commanders in charge of our troops to make a blockade (pillage road), now that they happen to be located strategically to perform such operation.

Now, in the satelite picture, we can see that Colonel Faul von Stadt is currently garrisoned at Napoleton, he has the posibility leave his position and head south in a short expedition to cut the road outside napoleton. (going north requires crossing a river). And, the other option (which I think is better) is to ask Major Eisen Mann von DSchungel to stay at his position and set up the blockade. This way German merchants wont be able to pass trough our territory, and since our territory is their only way into Persia, the trade route will be efectively cut.

Edit:

We still have 11 turns of Dyes selling to the Germans, so we might just not want to cut our route to the Germans, this means, I am sorry to say, that in order to cut the route of fine german iron to Persia we will have to cut down a segment of the TYREAN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY!. Luckyly, we have some workers nearby to rebuild it...

[Shiber]

Unfortunately, we will also be violating our trade agreement with Germany (dyes for 6 gpt IIRC).

[Zero]

in the most recent save, persia has no active trade w/ germany, nor a potential route. In addition You can't trade thru an empire that your warring with. It doesnt work like that.

Solution: England and Persia is conducting a trade, England is connected to Persia. (Arbela) Cut off one tile of road near Pasagarde, and Persians will still have iron but most of the cities in the empire won't.

btw, lets just keep one threa pertaining to iron alive... which one shall it be? this one or Our spies report Persia has iron! ???? it will get annoying posting same info twice.

[E_T]

See part 3 of 4 of my report in this thread http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=62238 for some interesting things.

E_T

[Aro]

Originally posted by Calc II
in the most recent save, persia has no active trade w/ germany, nor a potential route. In addition You can't trade thru an empire that your warring with. It doesnt work like that.

Calc II, they have active trades with Germany. This screenshot is from the last save:

[kring]

Originally posted by E_T
See part 3 of 4 of my report in this thread http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=62238 for some interesting things.

E_T

I checked out your report. Then, I checked out the map using Control Shift M. The reason I asked for a Control Shift M was because it would show the resources available to each civ. I would encourage more people to use such a trick in situations like this. Because:


The English only have one source of Iron, connected; the Germans have two, both connected. Persia has none; there is an unconnected one outside their borders.

The English probably aren't trading any Iron to Persia, unless they are trading their only source of it, which I seriously don't believe, and the advisor shows they have Swordsman so they have been using their only source of iron. I don't know if they (Persia) are getting it from Germany or not, but they are getting it from someone somehow.

[XOR]

Look, I tested it, when I cut a piece to the Tyrean interestate highway and enter the peace negotiation screen with persia it will say persia no longer has any iron.

So it is confirmed, it IS the Germans, selling Iron to the Persians trough OUR roads.

[=OttomusCeasar=]

Originally posted by XOR
Look, I tested it, when I cut a piece to the Tyrean interestate highway and enter the peace negotiation screen with persia it will say persia no longer has any iron.

So it is confirmed, it IS the Germans, selling Iron to the Persians trough OUR roads.

Not sure if that was legal, but if this is the case then let's kill a road so they don't have immortals.

Question is, do we cut off connection to Germany or Persia?

[Aro]

Originally posted by XOR
Look, I tested it, when I cut a piece to the Tyrean interestate highway and enter the peace negotiation screen with persia it will say persia no longer has any iron.

So it is confirmed, it IS the Germans, selling Iron to the Persians trough OUR roads.

Hmm... XOR, did I understood it correctly? Are you playing ahead?

[XOR]

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=

Not sure if that was legal, but if this is the case then let's kill a road so they don't have immortals.

Question is, do we cut off connection to Germany or Persia?

Heh, I dont think I "played ahead" on a non-latest game in which all I did was cut one piece of road and watch the foreign advisor screen to confirm the no longer had iron.