Do we continue war with Persia

[Reddawg]

I honestly doubt the SMC's ability to carry out a war on two fronts (re: Persia and America). I also doubt the Aztec's ability to attack America when they're in trouble with the other, bigger threats.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by wervdon
We should make peace with Persia asap.
Send our existing military to mop up the americans in as rapid a campaign as possible.
And let our core cities concentrate on Uber Island.

Don't make me check your "green card"! Your starting to sound like one of UnOrthOdOx's Persian vassals.

Has Persia discovered Espionage yet?

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Reddawg
I honestly doubt the SMC's ability to carry out a war on two fronts (re: Persia and America). I also doubt the Aztec's ability to attack America when they're in trouble with the other, bigger threats.

Think so?

I bet we could deal a nice blow to the Persians, send eight swordsmen and a few horsemen into America, and then start funneling units back to the Persian front.

Of course, I'm not the expert in that, which is why I posed the question to the Military Academy and would love to have some input from Aggie.

-- adaMada

[wervdon]

Don't make me check your "green card"! Your starting to sound like one of UnOrthOdOx's Persian vassals

-grumble- Just stating my honest opinion on how we can come the farthest ahead in the next 30-40 turns. I don't see how pointing out that the persians can wait makes me sound like a persian spy. I mean Im eliminating them for backstabbing us, but Im not locked into the "it has to be now" mentallity when I see other opportunities that surely won't be there later.

[OPD]

I don't see much point in a war with the persians unless it's a war to take perpesiosehsdfh and the pyramids. That is the reason why we fight. We already have land and could get luxs from the US. but the pryramids are what we really want. And so only taking a few cities woildn't serve much purpose.

The US don't pose much threat and the SMC is more than capable of fighting a 2 front war.

[Aro]

I don’t know if here is the place, but I posted this in the “request maps” thread. This can be important to analyze the real situation in the Persian front. Sorry by the double post.

Originally posted by Aro
There's a new tactical map posted in the same place, with the Apolytonian and Persian troops (only military). I'm sorry for the delay.
The thumbnail:

[jdd2007]

nice map!

hmmm, it seems we have no 'stacks' currently on the eastern front.

[adaMada]

Considering the results of this poll, conversation between me and Aggie, and general plans I made with Togas, war will continue through the next turnthread.

Sorry that a more conclusive majority couldn't be reached (though two to one is, by far, enough to base a decision on), but I've got to finalize my orders sometime...

-- adaMada

[Aro]

They have 11 persian archers around Ubergorsk and Geofront ( 6 of them in one stack). Ubergorsk is well defended, but Geofront is not (talking about units: 1 vet spearman, 1 regular warrior. We have another regular warrior NE Geofront, as a backup.). If we could kill those archers, their cities certainly will be undefended. Our swordsman in the tile S of Geofront can kill one, maybe two archers before he dies. IMO, our problem is Geofront, but the city has walls, IIRC. Not so bad, at all.

[GePap]

Originally posted by wervdon


EDIT: Or builds the lighthouse, but I have no idea who is building it or has built it

The Aztecs have it at Tenochtitlan

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by wervdon
-grumble- Just stating my honest opinion on how we can come the farthest ahead in the next 30-40 turns. I don't see how pointing out that the persians can wait makes me sound like a persian spy. I mean Im eliminating them for backstabbing us, but Im not locked into the "it has to be now" mentallity when I see other opportunities that surely won't be there later.

Originally posted by OPD
I don't see much point in a war with the persians unless it's a war to take perpesiosehsdfh and the pyramids. That is the reason why we fight. We already have land and could get luxs from the US. but the pryramids are what we really want. And so only taking a few cities woildn't serve much purpose.

The US don't pose much threat and the SMC is more than capable of fighting a 2 front war.

FACT: If we don't take Persia now, we aren't taking them until we have Modern Armor. And then it will be a struggle that will require us to have several other allies.

FACT: Persia controls more luxuries than any other civ.

FACT: Persia has the most defensible position, they are COMPLETELY surrounded by mountains or coast and only have two borders, England and us.

FACT: Persia is weak, has not yet gotten their UU, or GA, but is on the verge of both.

FACT Persia has lush grassland, highly productive hills, commerce producing rivers and luxuries, can connect to Rome and Russia via a harbor (once they realize it), can sneak attack our iron, Geofront, and Ubergorsk and has the Pyramids to accelerate their growth.

FACT:America is AND ALWAYS WILL BE an easy campaign. They have 'lush' deserts and 'highly productive' flood plains (can you ever make them poroduce a shield?). Their Great Wonders consist of Abe's rather bulbous nose.

We can take America anytime, we can only take Persia for a short while.

[OPD]

Originally posted by Aro
They have 11 persian archers around Ubergorsk and Geofront ( 6 of them in one stack). Ubergorsk is well defended, but Geofront is not (talking about units: 1 vet spearman, 1 regular warrior. We have another regular warrior NE Geofront, as a backup.). If we could kill those archers, their cities certainly will be undefended. Our swordsman in the tile S of Geofront can kill one, maybe two archers before he dies. IMO, our problem is Geofront, but the city has walls, IIRC. Not so bad, at all.

They'll probably concentrate their forces onto one city and there are 3 squares between uber and geo. Therefore perhaps we should station our "pikemen" between the two cities and then move them to the city that they go for. 11 archers sounds alot but we should be able to pick alot of them off before they attack.

[E_T]

Spank the Persans and then concentrate on building

I'm all for spanking the Persans and taking T, S and possibly G (and the proposed city shuffle). This will give us an advantage for when we need (not want to) to take more of there territory from them (i.e. when they get upitty again). But we need to consider SEVERAL factors here before continuing.

1) Our internal Infrastructure is in an abysmal state
2) We are still in a vast jungle and need a large space of peace to bring our current land holdings up to full speed.
3) We should keep the Americans as a semi sheild between us and the Germans/Greeks (Hey, it's better than our full northern border being against them) for now.
4) Work on Uber Island! Remember, we were lucky to get there in the first place, don't count on it happening again with a lot of Settlers & Etc. again. How much time/resources would we lose if we lost a galley with a settler/Pikeman combo on board?

After the conclusion of the Persan War, we need to keep the peace and only fight when we need to (i.e. when attacked). At least until the middle to late Middle Ages.

My opinion on this matter.

E_T

[Aurelius Azimut]

I am new here, but I believe it is in our best interest to use the combined wisdom of Targos' reasoning and Aggie's exhaustive "by the numbers" assesment of our situation to implement GhengiFarb's ONION PLAN. First we must attain current world (or at least territory) maps to avoid any grave errors or miscalculations. We should then begin prosecution of the plan fully focused on attaining the Pyramids yet reascessing our position and possibly attaining new maps after peeling each layer.

However, we must have no prejudice against ceasing the operation if ever the homeland is considered to be in danger. That said, I believe that if we start to peel away a layer we should finish it unless it would prove disasterous to do so.

Also, before entirely destroying the backstabbing Persian turncoats, we should leave them around long enough to enter trade negotiations in order to outfit ourselves with all their interesting newfangled technologies (which should be easy enough as long as the war goes smoothly, because at that point we'd have them by the "short hairs").

If at any point between layers we have to pause our glorious conquest (which I believe as previously stated should be ONLY IF THE HOMELAND IS IN DANGER) it would be best to sue for peace while gaining some cold hard cash in that deal. This would be hard to do if we don't complete a layer which is one of the reasons I think we must execute the layers entirely or not at all, one at a time. Thanks for listening.

[BigFurryMonster]

Re: Spank the Persans and then concentrate on building

Originally posted by E_T
How much time/resources would we lose if we lost a galley with a settler/Pikeman combo on board?

A lot, but fortunately, we do not have to risk such a stack. We can always use the Galley Manoeuvre ('Island Hop') to cross the sea, thereby only risking one single Galley.