Unofficial: Should we change governments?

[Jonny]

Now that we have reached the beginning of the middle ages, the possibility of changing governments is becoming a reality. While we don't have the Republic or Monarchy techs (I don't think so anyway), we could research them, or perhaps get them from someone else if we wanted them.

So, I ask this question: Should we change governments?

Please vote and discuss.

Note: This poll is unofficial, and it lasts 4 days.

[GodKing]

I say switch to monarchy ASAP. One thing to remember though, both republic and monarchy are very expensive to purchase at this time, but for the long term benifit of our society, I think it is the best way.

[MrWhereItsAt]

To a large degree this decision is going to depend on (and will in turn affect) our long-term aims once France is at least mostly ours. We really need to either choose

1. Peaceful development and build-up of infrastructure (Republic) or

2. Further WoN Wars (Wars of Necessity) (Monarchy or Despotism)

We will be in a much better position to decide once the war is won, but we need to discuss this aspect of our future now as well.

I think Monarchy will help a lot, as it will allow us to grow in population much faster than we have been able to with a few irrigated grasslands. This will also necessitate us getting Mono (Cathedrals) to keep the new population happy. Our government choice will be intrinsically linked to the techs we get next, and we simply cannot afford Republic without Cathedrals and possibly Banks due to the high public discontent and unit costs.

[Apocalypse]

Re: Unofficial: Should we change governments?

Originally posted by Jonny
While we don't have the Republic or Monarchy techs (I don't think so anyway), we could research them, or perhaps get them from someone else if we wanted them.

We have neither. The plan is to just buy them so we can keep following Project lain. If anyone wants to research those techs instead of buying them, just voice you opinion in the Area 25 thread.

I'd like to switch as soon as possible, but not through research. I'd like to follow Project lain at least through buying Mono.

[Shiber]

An important note: don't forget about support!
Currently we have 41 military units and 48 free support. Had we switched to republic we would have been paying 41 gold per turn today, in addition to what we're already paying for support and corruption.
Sure, Republic is awesome but we'll have to cut down our military force before we switch!
My suggestion is as follows: after the French war send what is left of the attack force (I'm assuming we'll sign a peace treaty before we lose most of our units) to America (or perhaps add a bit of reinforcements if we feel it's necessary, depends on how many troops survive the invasion to France) and take over what is left of it. Then minimize our offensive force as much as possible (keep about 4 swordsmen to counter any surprise attacks and discard the rest) and only then switch to republic if we have the tech.

[jdd2007]

either would be much better than despotism, especially monarchy considering our army

[GePap]

I expect our loses to the French should be light, and we do have 5 warrior we can upgrade to 5 more swordmen, more than enough to defeat the Americans.

I think the Republic will be best- I don't mind srhinking the mIlitary- the long-term benefits will be eimmense. Besides, we are relegious- we can switch governments at a whim, so this issue is not as problematic as it would be otherwise.

[Inverse Icarus]

I like pop rushing a lot, but monarchy would really help our corruption woes.

[Spiffor]

About military costs :
We have units which will be pretty useless very soon (archers), and disbanding them will be just fine after the 2nd American campaign. We'll spare something like 8 gpt or so.
Plus, we'll probably lose swordsmen in the process, less gpt to pay once we're in Republic.

Lastly, the greatly improved corruption, and the gold we could get from our luxuries would more than make up. Let's face it : after the 2nd American cmpaign, our infrastructure won't be enough to go to war with ready opponents (Greeks or Germans). Our corrupt cities won't be able to produce correctly, and we'd be outproduced by our enemies (just imagine Alexander having twice as more knights than us).
We can't afford a knights war against ready countries.

We'll need a building period, to have a strong infrastucutre, as soon as the 2nd American campaign is over. For this, we must have :
- as little corruption / waste as we can get
- as much research as we can get, at least to reduce the buying cost of a tech
- as much money as we can get (rushbuilding + tech buying)

Republic is the obvious choice. We had wars of necessity. Now, we have Building of necessity. Republic is the regime for building. We might swich to monarchy when we're ready and willing to war (being religious rocks)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Spiffor, while I somewhat agree with a time of MORE buiding, are we really in a position now to handle Republic? We would need to spend a decent sum on entetainment for Republic to work. We are Religious and can change Gov't at the drop of a hat, I say Monarchy for now, Republic maybe later. (Our short wars are no problemfor a Republic.)

[Spiffor]

Unorthodox :
After the 2nd American campaign, we'll have dyes, wines and incese. Our marketplaced-templed cities would be able to go to 6 pop without problem. Plus, with half-priced cathedrals and Persian spices, our cities could get to 11, 12 with a colosseum.
At short term, Republic is very viable because of our 3 luxuries and all our temples. At long term, it's more than viable because of foreign trade + cathedrals colosseum.

I don't think we should waste money by buying monarchy as soon as someone finds it, since Republic will be good for our needs. (and 1 turn wasted in a revolution isn't good anyways)
Republic will allow us to rush more buildings/cathedrals (simply by making more money), and will allow us to be efficient with a mere 10% entertainment, should we need entertainment.

Overall, I don't think monarchy will do us any good in comparison to Republic, except when we are ready for a long, deadly war with the Germans or Greeks.

[OPD]

IMHO
Our cities will be able to handle republic.
10% lux would let them all grow to 6 and alot of our cities would need aquaducts before more growth anyway.

But what if we can switch to monarchy while the incense is still about 20 turns away?

[Apocalypse]

We don't have the money for both Monarchy and Republic. We also need Monotheism.

[Harovan]

Republic would kill our economy for 2 reasons: Military upkeep and unhappiness. The increased commerce can not nearly compensate this. Republic will be possible, when we have marketplaces in our core cities and at least 3 different luxuries hooked up. Right now we need the martial law, as the 2nd citizen is already unhappy. Monarchy would be a good choice.

By the way: Who votes for reducing military (ours is not big!) to save money, is just screaming: "Extort me! Attack me!". I wouldn't recommend this.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Republic would kill our economy for 2 reasons: Military upkeep and unhappiness. The increased commerce can not nearly compensate this.

I never research Republic in my games, exactly by the reasons pointed by Sir Ralph. Mostly, I change from Monarchy directly to Democracy.