Paris and the Great Library

[Aggie]

How do we interpret this poll. My opinion is the point where 1/2 say stop is the time to wait, right now that is 5 turns. Is that a correct interpretation?
Aggie

[wervdon]

I doubt even if they get the library if we'd get any techs out of it given how close we are to education anyways. We'd almost have to try to get techs out of it to do so (ie. hold off on trades cause we know we'll get them free anyways).

The only real long term value it'd have to us is culture. Given that is a good value though, id say id be willing to wait up to about 5 turns, but certainely no more.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Reddawg
It's taken for granted that we are going to establish and embassy and investigate Paris. So to find out that they are only 5 turns away from a wonder and then just barge in and take the city before it's built would be insanity. A lot of resources go into building a wonder, if we capture the city when it's nearly done we'd have wasted a lot of resources and a lot of culture... such a waste.
I say wait minimum five turns, maybe 10 if they don't look to be getting pikemen very soon.

hi ,

why should we get an embassy , it shall only cost money and they shall only use it to spy on us , ....

and we are going to take it anyway , ...

we can collect enough information for free , .....

have a nice day

[Shiber]

Panag,

1) How exactly are we going to know if they are building the GL and how many turns they have left without establishing an embassy?

2) Why worry about them spying on us? After the war there won't be much left of them, not enough to attack us forcefully anyway and eventually we'll destroy what's left in a 2nd campaign.

[GodKing]

We wouldn't get any culture. Only the civ that builds a wonder can gain culture from it. We would be getting the benifit of the wonder only.

By the way this is working out, it sounds like most people think wait only a couple of turns at the most if it looks to be possible.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Shiber
Panag,

1) How exactly are we going to know if they are building the GL and how many turns they have left without establishing an embassy?

2) Why worry about them spying on us? After the war there won't be much left of them, not enough to attack us forcefully anyway and eventually we'll destroy what's left in a 2nd campaign.

hi ,

try shift and an F key , ....

2 : we should not wipe them of the face of the earth !
they could be usefull , and we could have fun to play a bit around with them !

also we should not give out free info , like when they are in our territory , they can see a couple tile's away , stuff like that , ....

and with an embassy there is always the risk that they spy on us , and it costs a large amount of money to get that spy out , and we dont even know if there is a spy , ....

have a nice day

[Shiber]

Originally posted by panag
try shift and an F key , ....

There is no such hotkey.

Originally posted by panag
2 : we should not wipe them of the face of the earth !
they could be usefull , and we could have fun to play a bit around with them !

Other than blocking Greece from expanding into Abananaba Minor I see no use for the French. It would be best to finish them off in a 2nd campaign later on.

Originally posted by panag
and with an embassy there is always the risk that they spy on us , and it costs a large amount of money to get that spy out , and we dont even know if there is a spy , ....

So what if they investigate some of our cities? It's not like it's gonna help them. Once we take Paris and the rest of their major cities they will no longer be a threat. Unless we lose this campaign, they're gonna end up like America did.

[Panag]

hi ,

Shiber ,

shift + F7 = wonders of the world , ...

as for the French , well we can allways sell old techs , trade , ....

the embassy is in general terms , ....

why should we waist money , we can collect the info a large amount of info without it , ...

have a nice day

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by panag
shift + F7 = wonders of the world , ...

Actually, you only need to press F7.

the embassy is in general terms , ....

why should we waist money , we can collect the info a large amount of info without it , ...

have a nice day

Yes, but we won't know how close to completion the GL is without an embassy, as they're the only way to actually see an enemy's city screen before the Intelligence Agency.

[Reddawg]

I thought that if you capture a Wonder, you don't get the accumulated culture, but it's reset to zero and you get the per/turn culture and start re-accumulating culture. You know what I'm saying? hard to explain.

[GePap]

The lands of the French are more important than the GL. Besides the fact that the frogs are unlikely to get the GL anyway, we will need our armies elsewhere fast, so I say, 0 turns.

[Shiber]

When it comes to culture, wonders are like regular buildings. If you have a city with a library and you lose it, you keep the culture points that you've earned from the library while you owned it and the new owner (the civ that conquered your city) begins accumulating culture from your library. The same is for wonders.
In other words, we'll enjoy the cultural benefits of the GL if we capture it.

[OPD]

If 0 turns wins and it's 1 turn away from building it when we plan to attack will we really attack.?

[Shiber]

Everyone, just keep in mind that there are 9 other civs building the GL as well so the odds that France will finish the GL are 1 out of 10.
Of course if we establish an embassy and see that they're only a few turns away from completing the GL we should wait, but 3 or 4 turns should be the max.

Anyway, I think we're holding this discussion prematurely. Unortho has said that he's going to play the game until the point just before we declare war on France so my guess is that he's going to establish an embassy and see what's up. This way we'll have time to discuss until Sunday, when the next turns will be played.

[Keeper of Hell]

I voted for three turns, but I would hope that if we get new intel, a new poll would be set up in light of it so we'll have a chance to make a more informed decision. Personally, since the GL is the main reason why we're forestalling the attack, I find a poll created with no information about how soon the GL will come in to be a bit nonsensical.