Tech acquiring plan : to the Medieval Era !

[Spiffor]

Skywalker, Shiber :
I will not play ahead. I've already done it once, and it was a mistake. Basically, I'd play ahead only to check if the plan will work properly... meaning I'll reduce the risk, which is exactly what playing ahead is about, whether you move your units ahead, send your galleys on ocean tiles ahead, or anything you do ahead.

I'm 99% sure this plan will work. However, there is a slight chance something wrong happens. If we accept this plan, we have to accept this risk. Exactly like we accepted the risk when attacking America with our archer stack.

BTW, in Civ, you can't bluff, and it works both ways : the AI will never lie to you : when it tells you'll get currency for 278 gold, you'll still get it for the same price, even if you come back some time later during the turn.

[Shiber]

I don't play ahead anymore either (I used to when I was still a lurker). I'm sorry, it was a bad choice of words. What I meant was playing ahead *within the current turn*.
As long as the turn isn't over I believe it's not cheating to run some plays and test your trading strategy.

[Spiffor]

Shiber :
You raise good points. I thought this tech-whoring would be accepted by everyone (and I've set up this thread in order to discuss the specifics), but I didn't think of these points.
I'll set up an official poll in a few hours. What do you think of :

Here is a tech-acquisition project for the year 750 B.C

The project says :
- buy Currency from the French for 278 gold + territory map
- sell Currency to the English for Construction + WM
- sell Construction to the Greeks for 174 gold + WM
- sell Literature to Germany for 31 gold + WM
- sell Polytheism to Russia for 17 gold + WM

Estimated treasury after the complete plan : 443 gold
Estimated treasury if we don't sell Literature and Polytheism : 395 gold

Question is : Do you agree with the plan ?

Answers :
- YES, I support the plan as written
- YES, I suport the plan, but am against selling Literature and Polytheism
- NO, I want the plan to be held differently (please explain)
- NO, I am against this whole tech-acquiring project

This poll will follow the grouping procedure : the option which got the most votes within the majority group wins.

This poll will close in 3 days.

[Apocalypse]

When do you think Germany and Russia would get these techs without us selling it to them?

[Shiber]

Yeah, that's a better plan IMHO. But let's not buy any more techs afterwards, we should let the French acquire new techs and then steal those techs from them.

[Spiffor]

Apocalypse :
I can't give a precise estimate. Both countries seem to have a steady amount of cash (around 2-3 gpt), and I can't tell how much the AI values these techs. Moreover, they might research these by themselves.
A prudent estimate will be less than 15 turns. A more daring estimate would be less than 7 turns : the AI can make demands (like the Babs when they wanted CoL), trade maps, or even trade communications if another AI is on Greek Island.

[Shiber]

There's no sure way of knowing, but since this is emperor level AIs trade with one another more often, so it's likely that they'll get those techs in a few turns. This is also another reason why we should sell them these technologies: if we won't then somebody else will, and we'd rather sell it to them because it'll improve our foreign relations and decrease the effective costs of getting currency and construction.
I think we should set up a strong lobby to push this plan forward and have it executed in the next turn, before Germany and Russia get these techs from other sources.

[Spiffor]

EDIT : never mind

[Kuciwalker]

Shiber, just one question: if you had a telephone to call Britain with, would you logically have already developed currency?

[Shiber]

Most likely I have, unless the telephone is operated by a calling card rather than coins.
I don't see the connection though.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear about this bluffing business. I didn't really mean bluffing in terms of lying. I meant that in the real world, you can ask the British how much they would pay for currency, but in civ you can't unless you actually have currency and you can put it on the bargaining table.
If we prohibit ourselves from playing ahead (within the limits of the current turn of course) when making trade agreements then we cannot do such things as evaluate how much the other civs will pay for a certain negotiation item which we don't have yet.

[Shiber]

I've tried the plan and it doesn't work (not on my game anyway). The Persians won't settle for less than all our money and some gold per turn and the Brits aren't so generous either.
(I'm using the 750BC savegame)