Discussion: Amendment - New Types of Elections for President and Vice President

[Captain]

Apoc, i take it you mean a split based on TIMEZONES, right? Americas (-4 GMT? to - 11 GMT?) and the rest of the world. Just wanted to highlight that because I think some others are misreading your intent here.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Captain
Apoc, i take it you mean a split based on TIMEZONES, right? Americas (-4 GMT? to - 11 GMT?) and the rest of the world. Just wanted to highlight that because I think some others are misreading your intent here.

i fully realised the intent

i just dont see how the proposed system can work without some major flaws.

actually, i had ideas of having a NA crew and Euro crew.. but, simply, i dont think we have enough people to do it.

[Captain]

Ninot, I didn't mean you in particular.
Anyways, I agree. there will always be problems. i'm not sure the proposal will have more major flaws than the existing status quo. i suppose if it ain't broke, why fix it? but otoh, that's where innovation comes from. always something to learn, even if its from our mistakes

anyhow, I'm impartial. I don't go to turnchats anyways. The reports and the newspaper are fine for me. so maybe i'll just shut up now.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ninot
its a good idea in principle, and i thought of it actually not too long ago, but i shot it down for only one reason. maybe you can find away around it

you say the loser of the presidential election would be VP. Now, in principle, that is a beautiful way to do it. But in practice, what if the loser truly is not worthy of a position, but ran in any case, and lost tremendously BECAUSE the public does not think them worthy for the job?

Thats my problem.. what if the election loser truly is a loser?

Well, then the VP in a normal election would be a loser anyway. It isn't like the people who would normally win VP in an election where President and VP are split would just not run. Take last term for election. It would have been Trip, Ninot, Timeline, and Apoc running for President. You can't say the second place guy would suck.

We don't have to have do the elections in the way I originally suggested. What I want to accomplish with an amendment is to assure there is someone who can play turnchats at times more friendly to people who aren't near the same timezones as the present.

I have another idea. Have the president appoint a Secretary of State. This person would be in a timezone different from the president and VP. He would also have to be approved by the voters much like judges. His only power would be to carry out orders of ministers in turnchats. Any deviation can result in immediate expulsion. Does this sound like a more viable option?

Captain: Yes, I am talking about Timezones here.

[adaMada]

That might work... if the turn chats were totally scripted, then there's no reason that another minister couldn't do it... instead of calling it a Secretary of State, though, I'd call it a Cheif of Staff or something else... Secretary of State sounds too much like a diplomatic position...

-- adaMada

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

Well, then the VP in a normal election would be a loser anyway. It isn't like the people who would normally win VP in an election where President and VP are split would just not run. Take last term for election. It would have been Trip, Ninot, Timeline, and Apoc running for President. You can't say the second place guy would suck.

We don't have to have do the elections in the way I originally suggested. What I want to accomplish with an amendment is to assure there is someone who can play turnchats at times more friendly to people who aren't near the same timezones as the present.

I have another idea. Have the president appoint a Secretary of State. This person would be in a timezone different from the president and VP. He would also have to be approved by the voters much like judges. His only power would be to carry out orders of ministers in turnchats. Any deviation can result in immediate expulsion. Does this sound like a more viable option?

Captain: Yes, I am talking about Timezones here.

now THAT i can aprove!

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by adaMada
That might work... if the turn chats were totally scripted, then there's no reason that another minister couldn't do it... instead of calling it a Secretary of State, though, I'd call it a Cheif of Staff or something else... Secretary of State sounds too much like a diplomatic position...

Just to have one person set person in control. Also, the more minister level people in chats, the easier it is for them to run.

And I don't care what this position is called, I just threw an idea for a name out. This is what this thread is for, getting ideas out there so we can decide on something that will help more people experience turnchats.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

Just to have one person set person in control. Also, the more minister level people in chats, the easier it is for them to run.

And I don't care what this position is called, I just threw an idea for a name out. This is what this thread is for, getting ideas out there so we can decide on something that will help more people experience turnchats.

Yea, my name suggestion was a pretty stupid thing to say -- it really doesn't matter what the job's called . Apologies for any insult. I've only listened in on one turnchat (trying to make more), but if the ministers are suggesting action in the ministers room, then that's def. the way to go (with one person). It does leave the question, however, of what happens about ministers who can't make it -- I know ministers already have a system of sending along their recommendations to the President when they can't make it, but that system would probably need minor modifications for this... I really can't think of any major obsticles, though, so I say we do it . It'd be nice to get more turns out of the way, especially when we're only dealing with 'housekeeping' stuff and we're not in any wars.

Just my two cents...

-- adaMada

[Apocalypse]

I wasn't insulted. I'm just saying that I really don't care what it is called and if people have a better idea, put it on the table. I'd like an idea out there by next election that would help people outside the Americas come to turnchats.

These turnchats run by my theorectical position don't have to be long. They can be only a couple short intermediate turns. Just something to help move the game along and allow more people to participate.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Ninot
its a good idea in principle, and i thought of it actually not too long ago, but i shot it down for only one reason. maybe you can find away around it

you say the loser of the presidential election would be VP. Now, in principle, that is a beautiful way to do it. But in practice, what if the loser truly is not worthy of a position, but ran in any case, and lost tremendously BECAUSE the public does not think them worthy for the job?

Thats my problem.. what if the election loser truly is a loser?

No time to make a decent post or even think about this ( it's pub crawl tiiiiiiimmmeeee!!!!!!!! ), but I just wanted to add a possible solution to this. Have a vote-of-no-confidence option for each candidate, thus the unsuitable would be seen to be so in the results and disqualified.

[Proserpine]

One word: No!

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Proserpine
One word: No!

It'd be far more constructive if you explain why.

[GodKing]

Idea. Hold election for prez as normal. Whoever wins, from wherever wins.

The prez appoints two VP's, from different timezones. The any one of the three can set up and play the game.

Also, I like the idea of the sec/state or chief/staff or whatever it is called. However, I would give that person the same ability in playing the game as the VP currently has, else they are hamstrung in playing if ANYTHING unexpected comes up without the appropriate minister (and realize, this would make havic for the ministers schedules) isn't present.

[Apocalypse]

This new position wouldn't need orders from that specific minister. Others ministers could fill in for absent ministers.

[Panag]

hi ,

we could always start several "sub"-games , one for europe , one for the states , etc , .....

BUT , that would ruin the pure fun in the game , think of how long it has been done in civ2 , no splitting up there , .......

we could ask the gods to set up several servers , .....but that shall only happen when there are like a Zillion users , ......

in short , its fun to have people from all over the world , ...

when one does not like the fact that a lot of people come from certain region , well , just vote , introduce the game to people you know , from you geographic region , ......

we should not split !

have a nice day or night