Apolyton Court Case 1: civman2000 vs jdd2007

[civman2000]

I will be leaving early sunday, so I will not be able to argue my case after tomorrow night, though if anyone who agrees with me wants to take over for me after I leave they may.

Request to the Apolyton Court: That this poll be declared invalid.

Argument 1: Lack of clarity.
Article III of the constitution says:

The required inclusions for the post are: an expiration date/event, a fair, clear and concise, unbaised question which addressed the issue of the poll, and a general description of what your poll entails.

The poll's first post:

The Question: would you agree to having sign-ups that replace current censuses and the lifetime signups, described in this thread

Options:

Yes, signups every month
Yes, signups every other month
Yes, signups every [insert your idea here]
No, keep the current system
No, I propose a different system
Abstain/Banana/Other

The thread that is linked to, however, only presents a discussion and does not clearly say what importance these signups would have.

Argument 2: Violation of Clause 2, Amendment IV (Bill of Rights).
CLause 2 of the Bill of Rights reads:

Clause 2: No citizen shall ever be denied the right to vote in any poll.

After I posted in the poll:

No. It's not clear exactly how significant the results of the signups will be, but since there is a chance that people who don't sign up monthly will not be considered citizens, I vote no.

jdd2007 replied:

we could keep our memberlist and make everyone on it citizens, but to vote you have to sign up. it would be flexible.

Note: this is not an amendment

Although this clarification of the poll is not in the first post, I believe it still may be enough of an explanation to invalidate my first argument. However, this clarification clearly violates Clause 2 of the Bill of Rights. Because the poll is not an amendment, it cannot restrict the right of anyone considered a citizen to vote.

[Timeline]

Not to be rude, but, does it even matter?

This can't be case #1 because I have already placed a case on the queue for the court to look into.

BTW civman, I just KNEW you would use the Bill of Rights to stirr up something .

LOL, oh well.

[jdd2007]

am i being charged with something? because i have no idea why im in court. i shouldnt have voted for the bill of rights. please inform me what laws i have broken.

[GodKing]

Bill of Rights......
Did that even pass?

Heck, I thought that acceptance of it was even up for debate because of the small number of votes.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I don't think this should be considered provided it is an unofficial poll, leading to no amendments.

As far as I see it, this poll is well intentioned, yet not valid for anything. Ignore it and it will go away. And if not, THEN there may be a case.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Timeline
Not to be rude, but, does it even matter?

This can't be case #1 because I have already placed a case on the queue for the court to look into.

LOL, oh well.

case #1 ??
It's public? Where is it? Some people like westerns, some people like comedies...I just love trial movies!

[civman2000]

Edited to be case 2. IT does matter. First, I want to use this case to hopefully establish a standard for the proceedings of teh court. Second, I will not allow the Bill of Rights to EVER be violated .

[civman2000]

jdd2007: No, I'm actually attacking the poll you made but since you made it I put your name up there.
Godking: Yes, just a few minutes ago. It had 47 votes, which should be enough.
MrWIA: BUt it is official. THe title says "Do you accept this new method of Censuses? ---OFFICIAL---"

[MrWhereItsAt]

Mmm. In that case it SHOULDN'T be official.

Who made it official?

If it masquerades as such, then I support your case, civman.

EDIT: I think we can convince jdd of the invalidity of this poll, in which case we need not put anyone on trial, as it were. I have every confidence in this, but if, IF not, THEN I support the prosecution.

[GodKing]

47 votes.... hmm

considering the turnout we have had lately, that is probably more that 50% voting.

OK. SOunds reasonable that it passed.

As the poll states "would you agree...." I don't think it is an official poll. As long as it is not being acted on as such (in other words - is used for informational purposes only in order to determine how/if to change the sign-up process) I have no particular problem with it. If, as supposed, it is acting as if an "official" lets change everything poll, then I agree in that it shouldn't be allowed to do so.

[civman2000]

It explicitly says it is official, so it is. IMHO, declaring it invalid isthe same as making it unofficial

[jdd2007]

before i made the poll, i asked a minister to post it, so it would be official. however, i was assured that it was in my rights to make an official poll


here is what captain told me

You can post a regular official poll too, and that would only require "the most votes" wins (or 50% according to tradition).

[MrWhereItsAt]

jdd - I think civman's points are that the poll constitutes, if added, a way in that ppl could be excluded from the game unfairly (especially with the amount of tripe you can see on the forum at the moment), and that it misses several key details that need to be specified before the Constitution recognises it as "official" (IMO the less imprtant issue), such as expiry date and consequences if passed.

[jdd2007]

i think this is what civman means

"we could keep our memberlist and make everyone on it citizens, but to vote you have to sign up. it would be flexible"

yes, i said that, but it was not part of the poll or anything official. i was conjecturing about how it could work. now i realize that that -wont- work, then it wont be part of the final product.

NO ONE HAS BEEN, IS BEING, OR SHALL BE "EXCLUDED FROM THE GAME UNFAIRLY" BECAUSE OF ME, MY POLL OR THE IDEA BEING VOTED ON IN THE POLL

[MrWhereItsAt]

In that case I owe you an apology jdd. But it did look like that could be a use for the poll (if passed).

I guess this is just a reminder to all of us that we must flesh out official polls THOROUGHLY in a discussion thread before posting them, so that everyone can be clear on exactly what they entail.