War Academy: Scenario of war w/ French after America: Plan Jackal

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Robber Baron
On the one hand, if we spend too much time trying to wipe America out completely we risk draining resources while our other neighbors grow unchecked.

Yes, and this is very dangerous.

And it looks to me (at this point, without having seen enough territory to be sure) that the French are going to get their hands on iron that we will need. If we wait too long, and France grows into a strong rival, it's going to get harder and harder to break through that line of cities to get to the iron behind them.

True.

Question: can we play "chase the palace" indefinitely -- meaning, take America's capital in succession (so that we would capture cities, rather than autorazing them)? I gather a city has to have culture in order to survive capture, and that a palace confers culture. So an enemy capital always survives capture, right?

It must have size 2 either by population or by culture. The latter means, it must have at least once expanded. Each capital meets this point after being capital for 10 turns (the Palace yields 1 culture). So the answer is: yes, as long as you give the new capital time to expand.

[Papa Chubby]

An oscillating war faces the same dangers of failure as an all-out war, the first wave could get crushed very unlikely but maybe. Furthermore it constantly aggravates not one, but many of your neighbours (French and Americans). This of course will increase the chances of a two-front war. While I believe that the Apolyton warriors will make us proud and that UberKraux is a somewhat competant warlord, we do not want to fight the French and the Americans at the same time. With their production bonuses and our lousy starting position, it would surely be the eqvivalent of Heimdall blowing on his horn.

[Harovan]

Not if we hit the Americans so severely, that they won't be able to strike for long. And that they need their full 20 turns of peace to recover from the blow and may be to build 1-2 settlers, to give our armies new food.

Imagine, they have 5 cities, and we 4, when we attack. After taking 1 city, razing 1 and getting 1 for peace (thats the average outcome of an archer rush), they have 2 cities left. We have 6, and get 2 quick settlers, makes 8 cities. Their cities are weakened from poprushing (the AI loves it!) and won't produce settlers so quick. Sometimes it's even wise, to wait more than 20 turns in order to preserve the AI's ability to build your future cities.

After an AI civ is weakened, it is no more dangerous. Just don't let it grow and prune it again. Finish it, when it ceases to give you good stuff for peace.

[Papa Chubby]

So we will use this tactics to carve ourselves into the empires of the French and the Americans while filling up the backlands with the cities of our own making. Sounds very nice actually.

Sir Ralph you are so practical that it almost gives a man the shivers.

[UnOrthOdOx]

My concern on this tactic is that some DIA members have stated in their campaigns that they want to destroy America, and then make a defensive army...

I am not sure if that is a personal view or not, but many seem to be thinking the same. Even if we only prune America, which I am adamant about, how will we convince them to declare war on another rival (I still think Germany may be better, but am compiling a reason why at the moment) within a reasonable time to make the attack effective? Do we rely on not having enough terrain? Will they finally see? Once seeing this in action, they may change their minds...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
My concern on this tactic is that some DIA members have stated in their campaigns that they want to destroy America, and then make a defensive army...

I don't give much on statements like this. Even the DIA will acknowledge, that even including the American terrain we'll have by far not enough land for a huge map. Far from this, I don't support any of these parties, I prefer the best of both worlds.

Even if we only prune America, which I am adamant about, how will we convince them to declare war on another rival (I still think Germany may be better, but am compiling a reason why at the moment) within a reasonable time to make the attack effective?

Ask them "Do you consider us to have enough land and enough resource-promising area to get through the whole game?" They will quickly run out of arguments.

Btw: Germany is too far for footsoldiers. Better wait for WCs/Horsemen or even Knights. They have to go till the industrial age, or does anyone want Panzers at our doorsteps?

[UnOrthOdOx]

I thought I only counted about 4 more tiles to Germany than France from where the survivors of the American war will be, perhaps I was wrong. I was thinking along the lines, take Washington, raze NY, sue for Boston (which may very well be roaded to by then) once we have the road to NY, we would have road right up next to Germany. I am also a bit concerned of France either getting swordsmen, or getting Greece involved. Though, with Hamburg by the mountains, you can bet they also have Iron somewhere. I need to get home and look at the save more closely.

[Robber Baron]

Well, we need to know more about German territory and vicinity, of course, before deciding for sure ....
But PRELIMINARY indications still point to France, IMNSHO -- to acquire wines and iron. The Germans don't have iron -- at least yet (or at least, not yet roaded in to a city).

[Papa Chubby]

Pops gotta swing his vote with the Robber Baron, even though he is an immoral bloodsucking scoundrel. Also the proximity of the French and the Americans must make them the first targets, they are the only ones that could possibly choke the peninsula. There would also be the possibiliy of making the forbidden palace in-between the French and the Americans, giving us a nice center position if we had both the Yanks and the frenchies.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Good points, I'll concede the fact. Greece may be choking our expansion between america and france though...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I thought I only counted about 4 more tiles to Germany than France from where the survivors of the American war will be, perhaps I was wrong. I was thinking along the lines, take Washington, raze NY, sue for Boston (which may very well be roaded to by then) once we have the road to NY, we would have road right up next to Germany. I am also a bit concerned of France either getting swordsmen, or getting Greece involved. Though, with Hamburg by the mountains, you can bet they also have Iron somewhere. I need to get home and look at the save more closely.

I think you are right with the tile count. But, France is already pretty far, no need to go still farther with footsoldiers. Leave a bit work for our WCs/Horsemen and Knights . I hope after the 1st war the road out of the jungle will be built. All we have to secure in this stage of the game, is horses and iron. Horses we have, they never deplete. 2 iron sources would be nice. I'm pretty sure, France and America both have one.

[Papa Chubby]

Sir Ralph already planning to do once we reach the medieaval ages are you. The strategic resourcess are very important, but we must not forget luxury, at emperor level they are pretty important. Therefore they must build a road towards America once we have, ehhmm..... done something to them, need those dyes. That also a reason for why a think hitting the French first would be better, they have strategic resourcess and luxury, wines.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I didn't notice one in America...My thought on Germany was that the actual road we were building would be closer to Germany, therefore closer/faster to get to...Plus, unless I am mistaken, there is evidence that Germany has been at war. There is a road to nowhere, a destroyed city? That may have been Persia, though, or even from my last game...can't remember at this point. We will know for sure by the end of American war...

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by Papa Chubby
... even though he is an immoral bloodsucking scoundrel...

Immoral? Fair enough.
Bloodsucking. Well, yeah.
But "scoundrel"?!?!? Sir, I protest!!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I didn't notice one in America

Neither did I. But we haven't discovered all of America yet.