Acceptance of Plan Eagle

[Jon Shafer]

I've modified Plan Eagle for a few different strategic moves. You'll be able to see it at the site soon, since I updated it, and included Plan Eagle in it.

As far as the fewer units, I predicted that it might be less, since I didn't account for waste, and I only estimated when the cities would expand. We may have to wait a few more turns for more 'rounds' of units, since I'm not sure if each army containing 5 units will be enough.

I definitely feel that all of the Archer units must be Veterans, while the Spearmen can be Regulars. I seriously doubt that America will counter-attack, so what I'd really want is to have all Archers, but I have to appease those who fear a counter-attack.

As far as changing production to Settler with Apolyton, I'm not sure if I like that idea much, though I do see the necessity of it. Apolyton will be able to build a Veteran Archer ever three turns, which is incredibly useful.

[Robber Baron]

So each stack attacks with 4 vet. archers, + 1 reg. archer. Not exactly overwhelming odds in our favor. We'll take at least one of the cities.
Perhaps, just to make sure we take Washington, we should load that stack with 5 vets., and send the two rookies to New York.

[notyoueither]

Trip,

All vet archers. Oh. I saw you mention a few regulars elsewhere and thought... Gee, they could clean up wounded units and destroy full strength horse. Not a bad idea. Gets us on the road to America sooner also.

re Apolyton and settlers... Well, if the first rush does not cripple the Americans we go from a bad position to worse. We can't hold up settlement of our own environs indefinitely. I really hope that we catch New York with 2 pop and thus capture it. We will need it to keep pace with the other 14 civs in the game (it was huge with 16, right). Even then, we will have forfeited 4 settlers by the time 8/2/3 are completed. That is close to the limit that we should sacrifice.

OK. If Joan comes a knockin, we build units with Apolyton. No brainer. However, if we cripple Abe and Joan stays peaceful the 5 to 7 archers left over after NY and Washington are taken should be able to convince Abe to make peace and give us a bunch more techs. We can complete the subjugation of the Americans with horse and sword in another 20 turns.

[Jon Shafer]

Hmmm, I hadn't expected waste and city expansion to take so much out of the armies...
I fear that unless we have at least 5 Veteran Archers per army, then we won't be able to proceed with the plan. Losses twice as heavy as the enemy are to be expected, and if we go in with 4 Archers and 1 Spearman, then chances are the offensive portion of both armies will be eliminated... I must express my demands for more time to build a force, or else Plan Eagle will be a failure.

Also, I've added a full report of the plan to my site. You could go hunt for it, but since I'm so nice, I decided to link you to it here. It's somewhat heavy on the CPU, so be patient while it loads.

[notyoueither]

Nice tune.

I'll 'run the numbers' for 10 vet archers. BTW, my production numbers are worst case, they may be better times than I originally posted (and will continue to so).

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Nice tune.

I'm glad someone didn't get so frustrated waiting for the page to load that he just didn't care to look at it.

I'll 'run the numbers' for 10 vet archers. BTW, my production numbers are worst case, they may be better times than I originally posted (and will continue to so).

I definitely feel that at least 5 Veteran Archers per army is a necessity. Hopefully in 30 turns we'll have that many... if not, we'll need more time otherwise the plan will fail.

[notyoueither]

How about 9 vet archers? That would give 5 vets for Washington.

Also, you are saying that the complete destruction of the Americans is required. Is that necessary? Is that desirable? If we destroy them, they cannot surrender and give us tech (for free essentially; actually it cost us many settlers).

At any rate, by turn 32 (at the latest) you would have 10 vet archers.

What about BanHQ and Blue city switching to settlers after the 2 reg archers, leaving Apolyton and Termina to build vet units?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Duel of the Fates.

or Rammstein's Links 2 3 4.

[GoodFella]

I"ve been gone for awhile.

What happened to Case Pink?

[Spiffor]

It seems we'll attack America first, so we're not calling the invasion plan "Case Pink" anymore. Plan Eagle is an extension of Case pink, as we produce some more units before starting the invasion

[Harovan]

I refuse the complete annihilation of America in this early stage. For pruning them, 2 spears and 6 archers, as was planned in Case Pink, is enough. I would say, after the Case Pink buildup is complete, we rush a temple, build settlers to fill autorazed gaps and then build reinforcements to prune France as well.

[notyoueither]

What dangers do you see in waiting 6 extra turns for 8/2 v/r archers and 3 vet spear?

[Harovan]

First, if we don't have settlers at hand, we won't be able to take full advantage from the conquered terrain. Second, I want to avoid the extermination of the Americans so early, and it's unlikely that they can be exterminated with 6/2. This force is calculated for pruning.

I would approve the plan, if there was a consensus to send the force straight to France after pruning America. This would be the best what can happen.

[notyoueither]

Sir Ralph,

I have discussed pruning America as opposed to destroying them with Trip in chat. I believe he agrees with me now. He can state otherwise if he wishes.

Here are the reasons I gave.

1. We can most likely capture NewYork and Washington, if the attack is surprise (NY would not yet be able to pop rush and would very likely be at 2 pop).

2. If we take NewYork and Washington, then parry any American thrusts for 6 or 7 turns, we can then bring Abe to the table and gain tech and perhaps another city in a peace deal.

3. In another 20 turns we can exterminate the Americans if that is what is considered wise. However, if we exterminate them now, we will most likely not capture a third city, and we will gain no tech. We will have sacrificed as many as 4 settlers and not maximised our returns.

4. If we let them live temporarily, they will most likely contribute to cheaper tech for us when they gain tech though AI trading.

I have also campaigned with him that 1 or 2 cities should turn to settlers when the initial forces are complete. Either Apolyton (can build archer/spear in 3 at 3 pop) or BanHQ and BlueCity (without barracks and 7 to 10 turns for archer) should switch once initial forces are complete.

I agree with a surprise attack to maximise chances of success and minimize loses. I agree with making peace for tech and cities. What say you Apolytoners?

[Jon Shafer]

Sir Ralph, Eagle can be applied both to the annihilation of a civ, as well as the pruning. It all depends on what people want. The existence of the civ is not an important factor in the plan... While it's designed for the destruction of the Americans, we can cut off the offensive whenever we choose.