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**ThePlagueRat** · July 5, 2002, 19:54

Bye folks! I will come back in 3 days, perhaps after cancelling my DIA membership for the cause of justice? (if neccessary)
So maybe I'll get into the court then?

**Spiffor** · July 5, 2002, 19:55

Good first proposal, but...
"should judge actions from the ministers". Why so ? I don't see how an action could be revoked, except if you mean "poll".
As for the impeachment part : I am comlpetely against it. THE PEOPLE impeach as much as they want, and anyone can propose impeachment. Letting a court do this would take away some power from the people (or would give the same competence to 2 different bodies

)

Trip : before posting amendment proposals containing several features (which allows a flaed feature to be voted because the general project is good), please think about it or consult people. There is a debate in the other thread about impeachment, and you just killed it to have things your way.

I say : polls as important as this should have one feature at a time. Future polls should be about :
1. numbers of judges
2. elected or appointed ? (group poll, to know who would appoint)
3. term limit ? (group poll to know if t's in a row, in absolute number, none at all)
4 Should they have the power to impeach ?
5 Should they have the power to reformulate the constitution without altering its meaning ?

Al these questions are a legitimate debate. If you decide to bundle them all in the next (precise) poll, you'll make things your way, because you know people will vote for the much needed constitutional court.

My vote is no. We need a better poll.

**ThePlagueRat** · July 5, 2002, 20:31

Originally posted by Spiffor

Future polls should be about :
1. numbers of judges
2. elected or appointed ? (group poll, to know who would appoint)
3. term limit ? (group poll to know if t's in a row, in absolute number, none at all)
4 Should they have the power to impeach ?
5 Should they have the power to reformulate the constitution without altering its meaning ?

1. We have some alternatives discussed already. 5 or more I think were mentioned. proposal of only 3 were withdrawn.

2. Some disagreement. needs to be meditated upon for some days?

3. Has been discussed slightly...
No good arguments, no conclusion?

4. To prosecute and run the trial, but the people decide as written by law already.

5. They can't. Without the 66% support of the people the new meaning/formulation is void. (as written too)

Quite easy, really!

But in the poll, make an abstrain or bananarama option for those who doesn't like the alternatives given!

**Spiffor** · July 5, 2002, 20:39

Why do we need a trial to impeach someone ? It's perfectly possible someone is blatantly incompetent and antidemocratic, while still following the rules (polls are rarely required for in-game decisions after all).

Such a person would be impeached by popular vote, but it would be impossible to sue him.
If we need a court to sue pople before we're able to impeach them, we take some power from the citizens : the power to suggest impeachment whenever they want. That's antidemocratic, meaning that is bad.

Edit : BTW, I think polls are MUCH better than "meditation" for unresolved matters. Many people did not participate to the judicial court threads, but will still vote. These are people who don't have much time to browse the forums, or who don't have anything to add to the discussion, as everything they think has been said.
Written meditation is nothing compared to a poll : people who don't post, for reasons explained above, can have an opinion on their own, without voicing it elsewhere than polls.

**LordImpact** · July 5, 2002, 20:45

The Impeached has a right to defend himself and to plead his case to the people. I propose that in the event of an impeachment a chat is to be held in which the judges moderate. They state who the accused is, and what they have done in order to warrant the trial. The accused can then plead his case to the people in an attempt to justify his actions. The people can also ask questions of the accused. After the trial is over a poll is set up in which the people vote on weather to remove him from office or not. Thats is all the judges should do along the lines of impeachment. Keep in mind. Impeachment by definition is a hearing. It is not the removal from office. Andrew Johnson was impeached and he won the case. he was not removed from office

**Spiffor** · July 5, 2002, 20:52

LordImpact :
you just convinced me. Putting a trial would be utterly useless, as the pending impeached would defend himself in the impeachent poll's thread... But a trial would be much more fun

**Jon Shafer** · July 6, 2002, 11:19

*Scoots this back to the top*
I hate semi-spamming, but I can't let this fall off the first page.

**Panag** · July 6, 2002, 11:32

hi ,

at last , ..... YES

have a great and nice day

**Jon Shafer** · July 6, 2002, 11:39

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

at last , ..... YES

You don't want me to have a nice day Panag?

And it's not called a Senate either!

I told you I'd get around to making this thing eventually!

**Panag** · July 6, 2002, 11:49

Originally posted by Trip

You don't want me to have a nice day Panag?

And it's not called a Senate either!

I told you I'd get around to making this thing eventually!

hi ,

, oops , .... DONE , ...

, the court should be part of the senate , seven people in total , ....

think of all the work they could help the government with

and speed the game up

while you are at it , think about a type of information office or so , they could post the screenshots , gather intel , actually collect info , give info to the citizens , etc , ....

HAVE A NICE DAY

**Jon Shafer** · July 6, 2002, 11:54

Originally posted by panag
HAVE A NICE DAY

Thank you Panaaaaaaag, I feel much much better!

, the court should be part of the senate , seven people in total , ....

think of all the work they could help the government with

and speed the game up

while you are at it , think about a type of information office or so , they could post the screenshots , gather intel , actually collect info , give info to the citizens , etc , ....

We're going to work out the kinks of what the court actually does after the amendment passes (or not

)... We're brainstorming ideas in another thread.

**Panag** · July 6, 2002, 12:04

Originally posted by Trip

Thank you Panaaaaaaag, I feel much much better!

We're going to work out the kinks of what the court actually does after the amendment passes (or not

)... We're brainstorming ideas in another thread.

hi ,

, maybe you should post a link , ....for the new people , ....

soon there is going to be a workload above the heads of the government , one that is huge , ....

organise and make it easier , and faster

the government should have a couple closed thread where they can brainstorm , people can read , but not post , so that you guys keep focus , ....

so you feel better from some words , not from all those boxes of banana's we send you , .....

have a nice day

**Jon Shafer** · July 7, 2002, 22:16

*Bump*

Not many votes, fairly important issue (though I doubt the results will change much).

**Verto** · July 7, 2002, 22:28

Originally posted by UberKruX
what? no.

last thing i need is the DIA with more power...

i can see the uberkrux war crimes case...

I wont let 'em send you to Nuremberg or The Hague!

**Jon Shafer** · July 7, 2002, 22:30

Originally posted by Verto
I wont let 'em send you to Nuremberg or The Hague!

We'll send him to Termina instead to stand trial.

Announcement

Amendment II: Apolytonian Court

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