Debate : Rules for turnchat

[Spiffor]

Now that we have a bit of experience with turnchats, I think it's time for us to elaborate some simple rules to deal with predictable problems. Some things I'll write are already done, but codifying it will just make sure.

I think we need to codify some things :
- The president and VP should be ops by default. They can op whoever they want. ("op" is explained below)
- The president writes what he does in red, or charges the VP to do it. People playing along must wait for the president to write in red before making the move.
- Only the president or the VP (if in charge of telling the moves) can write in red. Regular citizens should only write in black.

- it's possible to kick (explained below) anyone after a simple majority vote. If someone has been deemed "kickable", he can be kicked at will without asking to the others thereafter. Only ops can propose a kick.
- it's possible to ban (explained below) anyone after a 2/3 vote. It's impossible to ban someone, so that he cannot attend to the next turnchat.
- channels can't get moderated (explained below)
- channels can't get on invite only (exp. b.)

I'd also like to raise a point, which I think is more debatable than the others : I don't think we should have a separate chatroom for minister discussion. Having it make it difficult to keep track on everything (regular chat, minister chat, game, possible private chats).
This private minister chatroom will eventually lead to less interaction between the government and normal citizens, which is bad for democracy.
I suggest ministers tell their orders in the regular chat, but write in blue. This way, their orders won't be confused with people's demands.

Now, a bit of vocabulary :
Op : A person who has the power to set the rules of the chatroom. An op can do almost anything in the chatroom.
kick : Expelling someone from the chatroom. This person can come back whenever he wants.
ban : Expelling someone from the chatroom without allowing him to come back. Bans can last a given time, or can last for eternity
moderate : people can't speak (ie, nobody can read what they write), uless they are specifically allowed by the ops. Ops can speak.

[Jon Shafer]

That for the most part sounds good. But the part about ministers giving their orders in blue and not having a seperate chat isn't what I like. Normally, during the turnchat I'm busy with about 10 things at once, and with the chatroom moving fairly swiftly, it's easy for me to miss orders while I'm doing other things. If orders are given in another specific room, then it cuts down on the amount of 'other stuff' that I have to wade through to find orders. I'm probably the only person that has to deal with that, since I'm the only one who has to see the orders, execute them, then announce them.

[Timeline]

I can testify for Trip that it is indeed very hard to catch all orders when you are busy doing a bunch of other things, and it is a godsend to have a chat room dedicated to issuing orders.

I feel it would not be fair to not allow everyone to talk as they wish, and they would most likely start up another chat room anyway. Also, all citizens can go into the room where orders are issued, and they just shouldn't talk there (that forum should be moderated).

Just my 2 cents.

[JSeeds]

Originally posted by Timeline
Also, all citizens can go into the room where orders are issued, and they just shouldn't talk there (that forum should be moderated).

Good call. If Trip needs a seperate room so that he can keep track of orders (and from the chaos that the main chat becomes, I imagine he will ) it should still be open to everyone, just moderated. It would defeat the purpose of a democracy game if the game orders were laid out in a room hidden from the general citizens.

[Inverse Icarus]

thats exactly what we did... no one joined the room though

[MrWhereItsAt]

YES! Nice idea Timeline - kinda like allowing the public into Government sessions. We get to make sure the Ministers are listening to us, whilst simultaneously helping Trip, Timeline, Uber, Ninot and everyone else cope with so much to do by not swamping the important stuff.

Uber - I would have been in that room (if just to rub cyber-shoulders with such distinguished company ), and I will be when I can make the chats.

[disorganizer]

we could also have the room moderated with auto-voice per default and then just devoice all normal citizens when things get disturbing.

btw:
what does playing along mean?
if it is what i think it makes no sense, as the results will be different on each "play along" version of the game.

[MrWhereItsAt]

The game seems to be set up such that an identical move on any computer results in the same reactions from the AI. This seems to be true at least for the short term - please correct me if I'm wrong, but there have been several playing along at turnchats (including me), and IIRC there have not been any different results yet.

[Kuciwalker]

These sound like good ideas.

[disorganizer]

mrwhere:
as soon as the recalculation of the dices takes place, there will be differences. if per accident this will fall into a chat-time, the results will be unpredictable. if we did not have a fights till now, then you will rarely notice it. if we have a fight, the results are propably totally different on different systems.

* who knows how many dices the games saves with its sav?
* who knows whether the game was set up this way?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Then, disorganizer, we need to seriously reconsider playing along as soon as any combat is to happen. If there is no mention before in these threads, one of us (the people) needs to bring it to the attention of the Ministers.

[Kuciwalker]

The random numbers are calculated from in-game events, therefore if you do the same thing, it will give you the same number.

[disorganizer]

well, if the numbers are random, they cant be the same. of at least the propability of being the same is very low.
you can turn on "preserve random seed" in 1.21f, which will save the "list of the next random numbers" with the save (but i dont know for how many turns in advance). but if you do not turn this on, then the numbers are recalculated with hitting return at the end of the turn, which will make the numbers different for each "alongplayer".

[Kloreep]

I think preserve random seed is on.

[disorganizer]

but if yes, for how many turns does it pre-calculate? firaxis only sais that it is pre-calculating, but i did not find for how many "events" it holds the seeds.