Ministry of Imperial Expansion - 2590 BC

[Harovan]

Argh. Who let the worker clean jungle? We need a road to the Red city, to lower corruption.

Where it is, the Red city has access to 3 grassland tiles, the Blue city also 3, and Apolyton 2 plus 2 forests. This is optimal placed. If the cleaned tile won't be a bonus grassland, the Red city will be pretty unproductive (maximum 3 shields). It can make 5 shields where it is now.

[Spiffor]

SirRalph : don't forget we're industrious, and roadmine 2 grasslands will take only 12 turns (including moves). The clearing of another tile of jungle will begin 2 or 3 turns after Red city gets to pop. 2.
These 12 turns will have to be taken, whether we place Red City where you want, or where I want.

But placing Red City one tile NW will save us 5 turns of road building. The relative time cost of clearing yet another jungle (next to the river) becomes only 7 turns, which we can afford in time Red City pop. grews to 3.
With lack of luck, Red City NW will produce 4 shields max. With luck, 6 shields max. In any ways, 1 more gold (cleared jungle next to the river), and one more tile in direction of the French.

You'll probably say "clearing jungle is stupid", but it's the top priority of the workers, as I could see in the Turnchat : almost everybody agreed the worker should clear a jungle.

[notyoueither]

Red City is going to need that shielded, mined tile to stay on the schedule for Case Pink. I think (I'm not at home right now so I can't verify).

Also, a 3 spacing is going to be very much to our benefit re corruption as the empire builds up. That means placing cities every 4 tiles. Do you wish to address this point Spiffor?

Do you think we should use a 4 spacing (cities every 5th tile) with our capitol at the end of a peninsula?

[Kuciwalker]

Both. Plan Pink needs them.

[joost1110]

I voted non of both, because I agree with moving red 1 NW and blue 1 NE. Maybe set up a new poll about where to place it exactly?

[Inverse Icarus]

red city wont move. we voted on it and these are where they're supposed to go. would you like to complicate the game more by voting more and more? go ahead.

[buzzbat]

i propose building blue on the river to the n-nw on the other side of the river this may waste a few turns in the short run but in the long run it could help us...

also i would get a galley going to explore a little, especially to the south of apolyton where the sea tiles extends farther out... island, or does the continent wrap back around or is it a waste of time and turns?

[Jonny]

Originally posted by buzzbat
i propose building blue on the river to the n-nw on the other side of the river this may waste a few turns in the short run but in the long run it could help us...

I'm afraid we can't do that. The point of building these two cities is to let them be able to use the grasslands, so we can get the most benefit from the grasslands. Where you propose it, it would have access to no grasslands.

also i would get a galley going to explore a little, especially to the south of apolyton where the sea tiles extends farther out... island, or does the continent wrap back around or is it a waste of time and turns?

We don't know what our continent does yet. We will definitely get a galley out there as soon as possible, but we are somewhat far off from getting Map Making at this time.

[Jonny]

Our Plans

Since I am leaving on vacation tomorrow, I have to plan what we will do. I'm very sure that we will do this:

We shall build cities at both sites. We will build at the Red Site first. We will build at the Blue Site second, but the Blue Site will be moved one square northeast. See the picture.

[Inverse Icarus]

you wouldnt reach that tile N of apolyton.

[notyoueither]

What does that mean?

[Jonny]

Originally posted by UberKruX
you wouldnt reach that tile N of apolyton.

Ooh, true. My bad. The city radius of Blue City wouldn't reach that tile. But at least Red City and Blue City won't have to fight over the grasslands now. There is no overlap of the grasslands between those two cities. Just one jungle tile overlaps between those two.

[notyoueither]

Ahh. I see.

OK. However, the long term benefit of Blue being a coastal city may very probably outweigh the number of the grasslands from the Apolyton plains that can be reached.

Case Pink assumes that Blue City has only 2 useful pop to work 2 grass tiles. A worker can easily come along and add another grass tile to keep it productive at 3 working population.

[Franses]

I agree with Jonny regarding moving the blue city as indicated. Voted both.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Red City is going to need that shielded, mined tile to stay on the schedule for Case Pink. I think (I'm not at home right now so I can't verify).

Also, a 3 spacing is going to be very much to our benefit re corruption as the empire builds up. That means placing cities every 4 tiles. Do you wish to address this point Spiffor?

Do you think we should use a 4 spacing (cities every 5th tile) with our capitol at the end of a peninsula?

Indeed, having Red City not use the mined grassland would make us behind on schedule for Case Pink. You have a point, and Red City should be placed at its original location for the sake of fast unit production.

However, once Case Pink is done, we'll have to dismantle Red City, because its placement is extremely bad reguarding long term : it hinders Apolyton from using its full productive potential, which will be extremely bad for wonder building (Apolyton is probably the best city spot that we know of, better than Orleans, and dare I say better than Paris).
Plus Red City would hinder us placing a city next to the river (yes it means twice NW, or three times), because of proximity with Orleans. And, middle-term-wise, having cities next to rivers is a must : no aqueduct needed, magically more money, defense bonuses, ability to build dams and nuclear plants.
That's why we should dismantle Red City as soon as possible, as soon as it oulived its usefulness. If we don't, we'll keep it (because of its culture etc.), which would mean a very bad investment for middle and long term.

I thought placing Red city one tile NW was a good compomise between short and middle term, but I agree it's not enough for Case Pink. Red city where it is can be optimal for case pink, but keeping it thereafer would be dramatic for long term development of Apolyton.