Should the Finance and Trade ministries be merged into a "Ministry of Economy" ?

[Jon Shafer]

Considering that this would be an amendment, then that means it needs a 2/3 super majority vote, just in case anyone wasn't aware of it. That shouldn't be a problem since it only has 80%.

[Ninot]

The trade misniter as is really only has duties when it comes to the foreign relations window, and decisions here are also made by the Foreign minister, sceince minister and so forth. As is then, it is a sort of powerless entity and should be merged with somebody else right quick.

This was an idea i was poking around with often, but Spiff told me to hold on, and this is the thread you get from it..

But there are arguments for either way to merge. It can be said that the Foreign Minister should take in all trade duties, but then again, Spiff has argued well before that Trade and Foreign relations can be a very seperate matter.

As for the trade screen, in my personal games (and consequently, a few times in the demo game) I DO check the trade screen. I find its the quickest way to view which civs have something to trade.

But.. perhaps this should be another poll... "What do you want to merge? 1: Trade with Foreign.. 2: Trade with Economics"

[Spiffor]

In fact, I made a prepoll thread, which had 100% approval, and no discussion at all. When I've seen it, I thought the project was fit for a poll.

I still think that Trade minister and Foreign minister shouldn't be merged, because I still think the minister of trade is a minister about money above all.

"Trade" doesn't only mean "trade with foreigners", but it also means "keep track of our resource distribution". And the minister of trade, like the minister of finance, are in charge of supplying the empire with what it needs.

The minister of Foreign affairs has much to do, as he must do the intelligence work (until we find a solution, if this is a problem), he also has to discuss with a bunch of people before any trade. To sell Warrior Code to the Iroquois for example, would need the agreement of Tass and Uber, + the Prez.

Giving the minister of foreign affairs even more menial tasks (such as deciding if our needed Ivory must come from the Aztecs or te Zulu) would be unpractical. However, the minister of foreign affairs would be asked, in case he wants to favor relations with one of the 2 nations (or in case he might prepare war with one or both).

That's why I thought appropriate to give to the foreign advisor the ability to make trade embargoes, as it's a more political decision. I forgot if I stated in the project that any trade involving strategic resources need discussion with the SMC and the foreign advisor, but I consider this obvious.

Being minister of trade, I know that this post is much more economical that political, as all the political decisions are met by the foreign advisor. I don't think we should charge Ninot with economical menial work.

[Ninot]

As always Spiff, your points are well thought out and generally exceptional.

But i got my own thoughts, of course.

To sell Warrior Code to the Iroquois for example, would need the agreement of Tass and Uber, + the Prez.

As it is now, this is not the case. As it is now this type of deal comes down to my decision alone. Of course, it is very reccomended that I check with Tass, and possibly Uber, and ofcourse the Prez has standard pull for being the leader of the ministers.

But, like i stated quickly.. i have final say on trades involving tech, maps, anything not involving solely resources and/or gold.

I like the way Intelligence is working out, that being solely the job of the Foreign Advisor. However, I am guessing when we begin to have truely big ammounts of intelligence to search into... it might be wize for the economics minister to start allocating money for the sole purpose of inteligence.
But the way its shapping up to be, The Foreign Ministry may very well be a multiple citizen office, because it does entail alot of work. So while the Foreign Advisor is voted in, he would have to chose numerous Ambassadors, Spooks (intellgence secretary), and other such roles.

I agree on trade embargoes tho. They aren't trade or economical as they are political, or atleast not enough for it to be in the economics ministers field.

I whole heartedly agree on the account of checking with the foreign advisor for who to make trades with. Like, right now, I am trying to avoid any further trade with the French, as it seems they are a favorable enemy. (However, i must remind you all that since we already traded once with the French, they are giving us better deals than the Amercans. That Polite relations compared to annoyed. Reputation DOES matter)

Being minister of trade, I know that this post is much more economical that political, as all the political decisions are met by the foreign advisor. I don't think we should charge Ninot with economical menial work.

LOL. Don't be too symptathetic. I don't plan to have this job for more than 3 terms straight at a time

[Spiffor]

OK, I thought you needed the explicit agreement of the science minister to trade a tech, whatever it is, and the lack of agreement from the science minister could completely stop the trade for being made.
If the foreign minister has the last word on trades involving techs, then he must have the last word on trades involving resources among other things. Anyways, I suppose all concerned ministers should work towards a consensus when a disagreement is met. Contrayr to party politics, government is teamwork.

[Ninot]

Agreed, parties literally fly out the window once a turnchat starts.

But, I can't say I know the resource trade as well as I know the Tech trade in the contitution.

I am SURE i have last word on all non-resource/luxury/gold matters. But im not sure on those. And, of course, I check with everyone present in a turnchat before making a decision. I am a people's minister, after all. However, I don't stop for polls, thats too much of a waste of time to do EVERY turn, because EVERY turn, there is a possibility for a trade.

But, I'll research into it, but as it is now, im pretty sure the Trade minister still has last say on resource/tech trade.

[Spiffor]

Since this poll will be closed tomorrow, I thought I'd bump it, for new citizens to notice it.

[Kuciwalker]

Yes

[Timeline]

Sounds like the Trade/Foreign Advisor/Finance Minister positions need some amending in the constitution . I will get working on it and hopefully have something by monday night. It wil eliminate the Minister of Finance position, and adjust some other departments as well.

When I have something I will post it for debate.

[Spiffor]

Timeline : actaully, this poll is an amendment to the constitution, and is completely official. It doesn't figure "amendment" in the title / question because I couldn't afford more characters in the title / question.

If this poll has a 2/3 majority, the constitution would be amended, by deleting Trade and Finance ministers, and by creating the Ministry of Finance, as per the project in the first post.

[Panag]

Originally posted by GoodFella
I agree with GePap. Combine Trade with Foregin Affairs - for the time being.

hi ,

we could always repoll when it would be needed , ...

have a nice day