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**Panag** · June 22, 2002, 18:14

Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov
We won't be able to extract as much food from forests. Besides, we can't reforest land until we get Engineering, and that's a LONG ways away.

Still, anything's more productive than jungle, and we'll probably end up needing the extra shields more than the extra food. Maybe reforest half the non-bonus tiles, irrigate/road the rest.

(Incidentally, in Civ II, one could convert jungle directly into forest, no techs required, only 20 settler-turns of work. And the bonus grassland tiles were in a clean pattern. Ah, the good old days.

)

hi ,

, yes of course , but by the time roads are put in a 21 tile radius , and the jungle is cut down , we shall have the tech , we have to replant before the next era , why , well to get some coal there , (!) , ...

civ2 , yeah , but , it was no so funy as civ3 , ....

anyway , reforesting is also helpfull with global warming , early , yes , but some people could use certain phrases for when the have to be re-elected , ...

we yet have to see the formation of the enviromentalist party , ....

have a nice day

**civman2000** · June 22, 2002, 23:34

I would like to point out that the vice president has very little power whenit comes to our policies. Instead, we should look at their administrative abilities and dependability

**Timeline** · June 23, 2002, 09:32

Originally posted by civman2000
I would like to point out that the vice president has very little power whenit comes to our policies. Instead, we should look at their administrative abilities and dependability

Very true civman. However about foresting the cleared area, well, let me just say I don't think any of us will have to worry about that for quite a while.

Perhaps we will re-consider that enviromental minister when we discover engineering.

**MrWhereItsAt** · June 23, 2002, 10:04

The VP should facilitate discussion of the various sides of a contentious issue when such discussions do not arise naturally (although this is a rarity in this forum

).

They should NOT serve the Prez, but instead be the peoples' spokesperson, seeing as the VP has few responsibilities in the game itself. They should however be able to have a good working relationship with the Prez, and indeed ALL Ministers.

I see the VP as the other side of the coin to all the Ministers. Each Minister, although serving the people, has their own agenda (very noticeable in some posters

), and the VP should be prepared to help keep a discussion going on all possibilities raised and to clarify any confusions where the Ministers themselves do not.

We should all think of the VP as the one with moderate views ( or, if they don't have them, they should at least be able to listen to ALL views), and the one to ask for help in any situation.

Are the candidates prepared to do these things?

**Timeline** · June 23, 2002, 10:34

Excellent post mwia, very very nice.

Yeah, that is such a good point, ministers many times have their own opinions and jobs and "agendas", but as VP you don't really have strong responsibilities as far as playing the game is concerned. The president may not have the time in some cases to dig through the forum trying to find how the people feel, and may get conflicting reports on the "peoples will" from different ministers if their motives are skewed.

So this is where the VP comes in. He pays attention to poll results and talks to the people. He then objectively and impartially briefs the President on how the people feel.

Also, He talks to all of the ministers and gets their thoughts on issues, and then helps them to communicate to each other and ensures that everyone knows what everyone els is doing, and that we all work together toward our common goal.

Like I said in my first post, I may have certain feelings on issues, but I think everyone does. The question is, do you allow them to effect your judgement? Many do. This is not something the Vice President can afford to do when working with the people and other Ministers. He must be someone impartial, unbiased, and fair. Someone you can really talk to.

The things mentioned above, and in your post, I am prepared to do. Not as an extension of political influence, or ideological domination, no. But rather, amicably, calmly, peacefully, in the shape of teamwork and cooperation. It's only this way that we can start making our country greater than others, when we stop fighting among ourselves.

Vote for Timeline, and we can ALL make a difference.

**MrWhereItsAt** · June 23, 2002, 10:46

Thank you, VP Candidate Timeline. The Civ2 game has never had elected VPs (they are either the second running in the Presidential poll or appointed by the Prez), but we have been lucky in that all so far have been good VPs.

More recently they have become very involved in doing just the sort of things I outlined above, and this has received widespread approval. Our game has run all the more smoothly ever since, and I think that can happen here too.

From what I have seen, Timeline, you certainly have the ability to put forward your own views whilst looking at other sides as well and (most importantly) observing the collective will of the people.

Vlad, if you are able and prepared to do these things as well, we will have a great VP - whoever it ends up as being!

**Vlad Antlerkov** · June 23, 2002, 13:55

MWIA, that was an excellent post.

It's important for the VP to have an open mind while having views of his own. What was the old saying? "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out"? He should have an ideology; however, he should not place ideology above the well-being of the nation (or the game).

The VP needs to be able to communicate-- with the president, obviously, but also with the ministers and the people. This means not only talking about one's own ideas, but listening to other's ideas, and making sure that all the ideas are talked about. Open debate among citizens-- that is the basis of democracy.

As Vice President, I will do my damnedest to be the eyes and ears of Apolytonia's government, seeing to it that all points of view that are held by someone (including those I or anyone else might be personally be opposed to) are presented.

has their own agenda (very noticeable in some posters),

Actually, I was wondering-- is it the office-holder that shapes the office, or is it the other way around?

**Inverse Icarus** · June 23, 2002, 13:56

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Each Minister, although serving the people, has their own agenda (very noticeable in some posters

)...

who on earth could you be talking about?

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

**Inverse Icarus** · June 23, 2002, 13:57

Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov
Actually, I was wondering-- is it the office-holder that shapes the office, or is it the other way around?

office holder shapes the office, at least in my case.

if some peacenick were in my spot, we'd be paying france 10 gold per turn for peace by now.

**Vlad Antlerkov** · June 23, 2002, 14:00

Uber:

Stupid question, but what if a moderate were SMC right now?

**Kuciwalker** · June 23, 2002, 14:12

Then I'd be War Minister

**MrWhereItsAt** · June 23, 2002, 16:01

Originally posted by UberKruX

office holder shapes the office, at least in my case.

There's no problem with that, Uber. Doubtless my war plans in the Civ2 forum are heavily based on what I wat to do, but based on the feedback, I may have to change them quite drastically. In other words, although I may emphasize what I think is best (I am supposed to be the one who DOES know best, after all!), I must put myself below what the people want. If they object, so be it.

**Timeline** · June 23, 2002, 21:30

Nice post Vlad, but really, do try adding some unique elements to your posts instead of saying what I say or what another poster says and making it sound like your own idea

. It would make things much more interesting.

**Inverse Icarus** · June 23, 2002, 22:18

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt

There's no problem with that, Uber. Doubtless my war plans in the Civ2 forum are heavily based on what I wat to do, but based on the feedback, I may have to change them quite drastically. In other words, although I may emphasize what I think is best (I am supposed to be the one who DOES know best, after all!), I must put myself below what the people want. If they object, so be it.

exactly how i run this baby. i was very loud and elaborate on my war chariot plan, but when the people opposed it i conceeded.

(funny how they're building the road i fought over soon,

)

**Panag** · June 24, 2002, 10:38

Originally posted by UberKruX

exactly how i run this baby. i was very loud and elaborate on my war chariot plan, but when the people opposed it i conceeded.

(funny how they're building the road i fought over soon,

)

hi ,

politics , .......

funny how people react when you say to them "building a road will get you your banana's faster" , .....

yeah its funny , .....

have a nice day

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