DM Building Timeline

[Kloreep]

I still haven't finished orders for the next chat, though I said I would have them up on Friday. At least I still seem to have some time, since the next chat isn't scheduled. But here's something in the meantime.

Sharpe made a table like this for me to use in Legoland (Tiberius created the nice HTML layout). I find this can help me (and hopefully all of you, too ) see the queues more clearly, and hopefully it will generate some discussion.

A green entry means the city grows on that turn; red means pop loss - a poprush, a settler/worker completion, or starvation.

Updated with more Archers, less spears. We may have a lack of garrisons with this method, and thus need to use the lux slider (or else we'll have specialists - ick).

Turn
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity

53
Arch-8
Set-29
Bar-10
Bar-14
 


54
Arch-13
Set-Comp
Bar-12
Bar-17



55
Arch-17
Arch-3
Bar-14
Bar-Comp



56
Arch-Comp
Arch-6
Bar-16
Arch-3
Founded


57
Arch-5
Arch-9
Bar-18
Arch-6
Bar-2


58
Arch-10
Arch-12
Bar-Comp
Arch-9
Bar-4


59
Arch-15
Arch-15
Arch-2
Arch-12
Bar-6


60
Arch-Comp
Arch-18
Arch-4
Arch-15
Bar-8


61
War-5
Arch-Comp
Arch-6
Arch-18
Bar-10


62
War-Comp
?-3
Arch-8
Arch-Comp
Bar-12


63
?-7
?-8
Arch-?
Bergen
Bar-15


64
?-13
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
Bar-18


65
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
Bar-Comp


66
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


67
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


68
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


69
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


70
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


71
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


72
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


73
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


74
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity


75
Asgard
Trndhm
War Luck
Bergen
YelwCity

[Inverse Icarus]

we have at least 15 turns before we can declare war on the ottomons again.

as far as i'm concerned, thats who we're hitting again. their land is good, it's close, it's a natural extension of our own.

The archer rush time is dwindling, but it's still our best bet, as the zulu took our ponies, and the ottomons are going to get our iron.

we need to hit hard, as soon as possible, while still defending our homeland.

i would request 6 archers and 2 spearmen, initially. with that, we could move out and take Edrine, and then we could push towards Istanbul or Uskudar.

it's likely some archers will fall in our attacks, so i'd request refresher units to start moving in right after the initial army has started marching (hopefully, 2-4 more archers and a spear). that should be more than enough to seriously injure the ottomans, leaving us the options to exploit them, or eradicate.

[Kuciwalker]

What does "-comp" mean? What is a "Set" or a "Bar"?

[Epistax]

COMPlete
SETtler
BARracks

[Kloreep]

Updated to try to fit Uber's Archer requests. Note that the Otto peace treaty expires in 10 turns, so we could technically attack that soon, though I'd say 15-20 is the feasible timeline. Note that we'll have a garrison shortage if the troops leave within 10 turns or so (that's when they LEAVE our territory, not when they ARRIVE at the Ottoman border, so they could be sent that soon). Asgard will produce an extra warrior that can help garrison, but we may end up using the Lux slider in short bursts till some more warriors or other garrsion can be produced; that could be alleviated if Asgard turns its 3rd pop into a specialist to do our 40-turn researcd, which actually might not be a bad idea, much as I hate specialists; otherwise, we'd have both 10% science and 10% lux, and that could be a noticable drain on income.

At any rate, we'd have four more archers in 9 turns with this plan (not counting time to move those four archers into a stack). Combined with the Elite archer in Warrior's Luck, that would be 5 of Uber's requested 6 archers. Asgard could produce a 6th archer in 12 turns (3 turns after the 5th Archer) if need be, though that would slow down its growth (forest). It all depends on when we want to attack; the farther in the future, the more time we have to establish a home garrison, and the more juicy cities the Ottos will establish, but the Ottos will also build up more military.

[Kuciwalker]

ah, thanks

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Updated to try to fit Uber's Archer requests. Note that the Otto peace treaty expires in 10 turns, so we could technically attack that soon, though I'd say 15-20 is the feasible timeline.

Probably a stupid question...and the answer is probably in the manual or on the strategy forum somewhere... but....

When I have a 20 turn peace treaty, the AI always wants to renegotiate for an extra 20 turns on the turn the treaty expires.
I obviously would prefer no formal agreement, but the AI always requests it, and I cant "decline" without declaring war.

So in SP, I find myself always at war exactly every 20 rounds...or if I am not ready in 20...I end up being forced to wait 40 turns.

[Kloreep]

dp

[Kloreep]

Very good point HE. I'll start a new thread on this with my reply.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I replied in that thread, but reading this one made me think a little more... We don't want peace for another 20 once this period expires, so if they want a reneg then I think we should just reject them and be at war. We are hoping to be almost ready for an attack on that turn anyway, so it won't make much difference.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Just had a closer look... as of the save (1700BC = turn 53), there are 10 turns before the peace treaty terms end. In this time we will have 5 Archers, going by the above plan. All of these Archers can be in Warrior's Luck or one tile closer to the Ottomans at the end of turn 63, or 4 of them can be there BY turn 63. This outs aside the matter of Spears to defend.

With this in mind, it is possible to ignore any reneg on turn 63 and have troops in place to defend (or attack from) Warrior's Luck as soon as the war is on.

There are two flaws I see to this plan - one more serious than the other. We have no defenders there, so unless we arrange them somehow, we may get unlucky at times if they have a larger stack than our own. More risky is the fact that we don't know all of the Ottos land, so they may have Horses, which would make large Norse steaks out of our Archers. Of course the Horses issue applies whenever we attack.

So, is it acceptable in ten turns time to have this many Archers around to protect ourselves and maybe take Edrine without Spears and with the risk of facing Horses? If not then we either have to hope the reneg doesn't happen and we can choose when to attack, weather the war until we ARE ready to attack, or reneg and cope with the bars snapping closed on our Archer-rush window.

In any case, I suggest we move the Archers to Warrior's Luck ASAP anyway, so we can prepare for our war with the Ottos.

[BigFurryMonster]

I believe they built a (coastal) city on a Horses resource, so they might send in Horsemen.

I seriously doubt whether 5 Archers would be enough, but I do not have much experience with early Archer wars.

[GodKing]

They do have horses, as BFM says, under one of their cities.

5 I do not think is enough. We will be sorley pressed, particularly if we do not have any defenders.

[Kloreep]

They do have horsies. Whether they have them connected, I don't know; I'm not sure how long ago it was we had the area scouted.

As for defense, we would need to take one or two spears off of garrsion duty. The Warrior produced in Asgard could hopefully compensate.

I agree we'll be sorely pressed, and I agree it's a risk, but I think it's better than giving them another 20 turns to build. We stand a good chance of taking Edrine, I think; we'll need more Archers after that, yes, but we can make an okay first offensive against Edrine with a little spear cover.

[realpolitic]

5 archers is not enough for war.If we don't build new barracks we'll have 8(4 or 5 regulars),if we take an extra city worth them it will be well worth the wait on barracks. The truth is we don't know what we'll be attacking: warriors, archers or 1/3 spearmen. Regular archers do fine against these.