America. One nation, under God?

[Bos]

Originally posted by RyanR
You should really come visit .

Already got that covered! I've been in America for several years

I've never met anyone in my life that believed in creationism. And what is on the money is just plain outdated, and not an indicator.

Yes, most of the people I know in America do not believe fully in creationalism; but many people believe in some form of creationalism mixed with some form of evolution. Then again, there must be someone out there with the power to lobby schools to stop teaching evolution.

As for what is on the money, haven't several Presidents attempted removing "In God We Trust" from the currency? I seem to recall Franklin Roosevelt as having attempted such.

[Datajack Franit]

How can a real italian have quotes written with such a crappy grammar?

[Bos]

Speak in your own tongue, and few can understand.
Speak in simple terms, and the point gets through to all.

Most people should be able to read my quotes and understand the meaning, regardless of the languages they are in. Write in a regional dialect, and oftentimes only a handful of people will understand.

[bobbo008]

Come ON! If America is religious, then so is every civilization that has ever been on Earth. Sure we have spiritual people, but religion in the culture itself is no where close to a "religious" civ like the Aztecs. The U.S. even has seperation of church and state, not even Europe (which is less religious on the whole) has that.

On a side note, I'm proud to say that Norway has the highest percentage of atheists on Earth

[sabrewolf]

bobbo: officially church and state are separated (also so in iraq, former soviet union, turkey and most modern countries).

but still you could _never_ imagine having a non-christian president. i don't even think that any member of the house or the senate isn't a strong believer. god is mentioned on every piece of money. god is used in very many speaches of the president (btw: clinton also liked using that). crosses in schools and other public buildings are still mandatory in many states. god is even mentioned in the constitution.

religion might not be that extreme as it was a few centuries ago (like the aztecs), but for modern days, the USA is very religious.

btw: i envy you scandinavians for many things, not just atheist percentage

[One_Brow]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
bobbo: officially church and state are separated (also so in iraq, former soviet union, turkey and most modern countries).

but still you could _never_ imagine having a non-christian president.

They used to say that about "non-Protestant", until JFK.

i don't even think that any member of the house or the senate isn't a strong believer.

Out of the 565, I'm pretty sure we have at least 5 that are minimally, if at all, believers, and a few more that are non-Christian believers.

god is mentioned on every piece of money. god is used in very many speaches of the president (btw: clinton also liked using that).

All true.

crosses in schools and other public buildings are still mandatory in many states.

It's probably true that many of the existing crosses have achieved the equivalent of landmark status and will not be taken down, but it is illegal to to put a cross on public property unless it is part of a multi-religious "cultural grouping".

god is even mentioned in the constitution.

Yes, and a number of signees were non-Christian Deists. They did not see the Constitution as promoting Christianity.

religion might not be that extreme as it was a few centuries ago (like the aztecs), but for modern days, the USA is very religious.

btw: i envy you scandinavians for many things, not just atheist percentage

[Amesjustin]

Commercial and expansionist would be the best traits. I don't think I need to explain the Commercial. While I agree that we are no longer an expansionist country, we were formed by expansion - making this a very important part of how we came to be.

If you wanted to make it more like Modern America, then the secondary trait could be Scientific or Industrious, I am leaning towards Scientific.

I don't see making a case for Religious. Yes there are religious references everywhere. Yes religion influences the laws we have. The seperation of church and state may not be complete, but they are more seperate than combined. No religion absolutely reigns in the government. The purpose of that statement within the constitution was to have a government that wasn't ruled outright by the church - and for the MOST part it has worked. I would agree that having Bush as president and Ashcroft also in power is a BIG step backwards for us, but that applies to so many other things not covered in this thread as well.

And I think most if not all countries governments are influenced to some degree by the main religion within that country. That does not make it a religious country.

[joncnunn]

Hum, Scientific not listed as a choice? Not that I would have picked it, but to be the only one not listed and I can make a better point for being Scientific than one of the choices that is listed.

Anyway I vote for Industrious + Expansionist. ... Wait that's how they already are.

Expansionism runs in Americas blood; we expanded from 13 colonies along the Atlantic shore to the lower 48 states, sometimes thru shrewd diplomacy, sometimes via war.

And no sooner did the US Census Bureu declare the frontier no longer exists, than did we start explaining overseas, first to Hawii, and then in the Spanish American War taking countries in the South Pacific.

Currently we are the leading country in space reserach and primary contributer to the international space station.

The 2nd most prevalent traight we've had is Industry. The best examples of this in the Hoover Dam and the speed at which we got our railroad network built across the west in the 1870s and 1880s.

America isn't Religious in the sense that Civ III seems to use the term looking at the offical Religious civs. Our federal govt has never named one denomination as the favorite religious denomination with tax funds all going in support of it, while at one time the English govt directly supported the Angelean church.

3rd would be Commerical.
4th would be Military.
5th would be Scientific. (Inventors like Thomas Edison)

[Yanghead]

This is a tough one.

Industrious for sure. They just produce so much crap. WWII wasn't won by superior military minds, its was won by mountains of material.

Second either: Religious or Scientific, not because US is particularily religious or scientific, but rather because of cheap culture buildings.

Its all about gameplay and not the reality of life.

Expansionist: Sure the US expanded a lot during its infancy, but does getting better goodie huts = crushing less developed civs(ie Iroquois).

Militaristic: Yes they were at times rather Militant, but not overly successful at it. (Feinian Raids, war of 1812[feel free to PM me about this one you American Scholars])

Comercial: primary (gameplay) bonus of reduced corruption. Ummm.... Savings and Loans?, Hollywood?, Mayors smoking Crack?. So commercial is out besides the rest of the world agrees Amreica is decadent and corrupt, just ask any communist hardliner.

Ok now for why I choose culture buildings.

Religious: ok not one state religion, but man they have some serious fanatics. Remember the "Send me 5 million dollars or God is going to call me back"?. Or just take a look at tours of New England churches, I mean I grew up on the west coast of Canada, and I know about New England Churches.

Scientific: Edison(sp?) and Newton, 'nuff said.

The other aspect of culture and the pervasiveness of US "culture" Mcdonalds in Moscow, in the 90s. Headline: Cold War ends, Moscow culture flips!

These gameplay related issues (culture, pruduction), is why I say Scientific & Industrious, or Religious & Industious.

[Underseer]

Re: America. One nation, under God?

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Got into this completely OT discussion in another thread so I'm bringing it here and assuming I can get this poll to work it might be interesting to see.

Are the American civ traits appropriate and most importantly could America be considered a religious civ.

It would be cool if Firaxis used a poll like this for every civ. That way if someone complains they can't be blaimed.

A religious civ? Are you nuts? That "one nation under God" stuff is revisionist crap religious fanatics added well after the fact. This nation was founded in the self-named "Age of Enlightenment." Many of our founding fathers took scientific deification to a degree even I find ludicrous, and I'm a dyed-in-the-wool atheist with scientic training.

If religion were as central to this nation's founding as certain zealots mistakenly believe, we would not have freedom of religion; we would have an official state-sponsored religion.

[Underseer]

Hey! Why isn't science one of the available choices?

I'll be the first to admit that relative to population and resources we're a little bit weak on contributions to theoretical or "pure" science, but on the applied side we've made huge contributions. I don't need to babble off the list because I'm sure everyone's familiar with it, and I already sound like too much of a jingoist.

Heck, four of the scientific wonders in the game (Apollo Program, The Internet, SETI Program, Manhattan Project) were originally American. (I am not going to count SDI on that list because we don't have one that works yet. )

[joncnunn]

Religion was important to most of the Country's founders. The reason we've never had a state sponsered religion is because the founders had DIFFERENT favorate religiious denominations; most of the protestant denominations in existance at the time + Catholism + Deism were represented in our County's founding fathers.

But compare with the Civs that are listed in Civ III as PTW, and you find that the population of that civ during the era it's representing the most were virtually all praticing the same religion with the possible exception of India.

[joncnunn]

Of the US based Great Wonders:

Hoover Dam is listed as an Industrious wonder.

SETI is listed as an Expansionist wonder.

Manhattan is listed as an Industrious & Military wonder.

UN is listed as a Commerical wonder.

The Intenet is listed as an all trights wonder.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Underseer
Heck, four of the scientific wonders in the game (Apollo Program, The Internet, SETI Program, Manhattan Project) were originally American. (I am not going to count SDI on that list because we don't have one that works yet. )

ok, but consider this:
- SETI project isn't really that important. search for extraterrestial life? i hope there is something like that, but until now: no sign of it (except some crop signs and crazy farmers)
- the internet was developed by the department of defence and was used a decade as ARPAnet. but the breakthrough (away from militaristic and academic use) came only, when the WWW got developed.... and that was at the CERN in geneva. however the basics of the internet (TCP/IP) was developed by an american. this wonder only counts half.
- the hoover dam is big and impressive, but nothing really special about it. it wasn't the first water powerstation, it wasn't the most powerful, it wasn't the most effective.
- manhattan project & apollo program: yes, both definetly american contributions.
- UN: allthough initiated by president wilson, it is an international accomplishment. it just needed the patronate of a powerful and influencial person.

[sabrewolf]

speaking of american influence on the game:
there should be a tech called "modern warfare", which allows better cruise missiles, no-danger bombarding, and so on.

this may even be the biggest unique contribution of modern day USA to the world (most other things were partly or fully developed by foreigners)