Extra Pack: In search for testers

[Antxon]

Hi Wernazuma,
I've found this thread today, so disregard my previous post in another.
I like to test the pack if there is time yet.
Thank you for your nice work

[Antxon]

BTW, as a spaniard I think it will be better to have Emperor Charles The First (Isabella's grandson) as our leader. He is known also as Emperor Charles V of the German Empire.

[Wernazuma III]

Isabella has been chosen, because the women:men ratio is already VERY much leaning towards men. Of all the ExtraPack Civs, Spain had the best female ruler to offer.
I think we all agree that Louis XIV or Napoleon would have made better French rulers too, but...

[Antxon]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Isabella has been chosen, because the women:men ratio is already VERY much leaning towards men. Of all the ExtraPack Civs, Spain had the best female ruler to offer.
I think we all agree that Louis XIV or Napoleon would have made better French rulers too, but...

Well, really more than 90% of the great leaders were men, but if you think you need more female leaders...
Some notes on your Spain description:
Magellan was portuguese, not a spaniard
I think Charles I is a better leader than his son Phillip II
Other leaders: Gran Capitán, Viriato
Spain didn't rule Portugal. At that time Spain didn't exist, Phillip II (Phillip I for the portuguese) was king of Castile, Navarre, Aragón, Portugal and other places. It is the same thing now with the United Kingdom and Canada: both have the same queen but are independent. I know then the king were absolutists and ruled as such, but the laws in each part of the kingdom were diferent.
City Names:
Cadiz -> Cádiz
Merida -> Mérida
La Coruña -> A Coruña
Almunecar -> Almuñécar (Why this city?)
English is not my native langage, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think Isabella was the queen of the spaniards and not the queen of the spanish.

Do not hesitate in sending me a private message if you think I can help you in this nice project. Maybe we can use spanish, as I think you speak my idiom.
Best regards
Un cordial saludo

[Hagbart]

Sorry for my bad knowledge, but what are the difference of the Spanish and the Spaniards?

[Wernazuma III]

Antxon: The list has been compiled here mainly by other spanish people here. I know that Magellan was Portuguese, but after all he conducted his voyages for the Spanish king.
I've added Carlos as a Great Leader, I don't know why he wasn't in.
About Spain/Portugal: I know that it was a personal-union, but almost everything was back then. Applying your logics, Styria (my province in Austria) hadn't been part of Austria for a long time as the Habsburgs were dukes of Austria AND dukes of Styria...
The politics of Philipp II showed that he tried to make a common politics for Spain and Portugal, like expelling the jews in the first place...

I don't know the difference between Spanish and Spaniards either, but until now, no English speaker complained about Spanish, so...

Saludos, Wernazuma

[Antxon]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Antxon: The list has been compiled here mainly by other spanish people here. I know that Magellan was Portuguese, but after all he conducted his voyages for the Spanish king.
I've added Carlos as a Great Leader, I don't know why he wasn't in.

....

The politics of Philipp II showed that he tried to make a common politics for Spain and Portugal, like expelling the jews in the first place...

I don't know the difference between Spanish and Spaniards either, but until now, no English speaker complained about Spanish, so...

Saludos, Wernazuma

Magellan (Magallanes) conducted his around the world voyage for the portuguese king of that time. He was killed by the natives in the Phillipines and Juan Sebastián de Elcano finished the voyage. For us, spaniards, is the first one to sail around the world.

The jews were expelled from Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492 and from Portugal by D. Manuel I in 1497 (Decree of December 1496)

Quotes from Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: Span·iard
Pronunciation: 'span-y&rd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English Spaignard, from Middle French Espaignart, from Espaigne Spain, from Latin Hispania
Date: 15th century
: a native or inhabitant of Spain

Main Entry: Span·ish
Pronunciation: 'spa-nish
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish, adjective, from Middle English Spainish, from Spain
Date: 15th century
1 : the Romance language of the largest part of Spain and of the countries colonized by Spaniards
2 plural in construction : the people of Spain
- Spanish adjective
- Span·ish·ness noun

[Wernazuma III]

Thanks for clarifying the Spaniards issue.
But Magellan still was travelling under spanish sails. He WANTED to sail for the Portuguese, but he fell in disgrace of king Manuel and thus went to Spain. The Spaniards saw an opportunity to get to the Philippines by the west route and wanted to proof that they were in the "Spanish half" of the world.

I knew about Isabella and Fernando expelling the jews, but not about the Portuguese. I wonder why, then, so many Jews fled from Portugal to the Netherlands and other parts in 1580/81?

[Jay Bee]

Antxon, Magellan was traveling under Charles I, king of Spain. Portugal was independent at that time and, as Werna said, rejected Magellan's services. That's why he crossed the border. Historically speaking, Magellan is a Spanish sailor, just like Columbus.

The problem with Isabella (and this is something I have mentioned several times already) is that she never was Queen of Spain, but of Castile. It's exactly the same as Elizabeth II being queen of the English, but not the British. The right one should have been Philip II. Charles I (V) wasn't bad either but he ruled over severla other countries, which in my opinion rests credibility to his 'Spainicity'. Philip II was just king of Spain, period.

Spaniards and Spanish, when used as a noun, mean the same. Spanish can be used as an adjective as well (i.e. Spanish language, Spanish Pride....), Spaniard can't.

[Antxon]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Thanks for clarifying the Spaniards issue.
But Magellan still was travelling under spanish sails. He WANTED to sail for the Portuguese, but he fell in disgrace of king Manuel and thus went to Spain. The Spaniards saw an opportunity to get to the Philippines by the west route and wanted to proof that they were in the "Spanish half" of the world.

I knew about Isabella and Fernando expelling the jews, but not about the Portuguese. I wonder why, then, so many Jews fled from Portugal to the Netherlands and other parts in 1580/81?

You are absolutely right about Magellan. His voyage started in 1520, so sixty years before Philip came to Portugal as a king.

About the jews: many of them 'converted' to christianism, but only for the show. They continued to follow the jewish faith with the consent of the portuguese people and king.
In 1580 Philip arrived in Portugal and then the jews flew to other countries.

[Antxon]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
Antxon, Magellan was traveling under Charles I, king of Spain. Portugal was independent at that time and, as Werna said, rejected Magellan's services. That's why he crossed the border. Historically speaking, Magellan is a Spanish sailor, just like Columbus.

The problem with Isabella (and this is something I have mentioned several times already) is that she never was Queen of Spain, but of Castile. It's exactly the same as Elizabeth II being queen of the English, but not the British. The right one should have been Philip II. Charles I (V) wasn't bad either but he ruled over severla other countries, which in my opinion rests credibility to his 'Spainicity'. Philip II was just king of Spain, period.

Spaniards and Spanish, when used as a noun, mean the same. Spanish can be used as an adjective as well (i.e. Spanish language, Spanish Pride....), Spaniard can't.

I agree with you about Magellan.

I cannot agree with you about Felipe II. He was king of Castile, Aragón, Navarra, Portugal and other places as well (I think), but at that time Spain was only a place with many countries with diferent laws, but with the same king.

Yes, but you can say 'A Spaniard came to see me' and you cannot say 'A Spanish came to see me'

Oye: ¿Por qué discutimos en inglés?
Saludos

[Jay Bee]

We can move the discussion to the Spanish forum

Philip II was king of Spain, at that time a confederation of independent kingdoms. But the truth is that their foreign policy was the same and Philip II was the first andd ultimate responsible for any action to be taken. Because of that, at that time Spain was referred to in plural, the Spains. I like that, wish it would have been preserved.

Spanish/Spaniard: yes, you're right, I was referring to the plural form, not the singular.

Nos movemos al Spanish forum? Empieza vos la thread Has leido el Philip II de Kamen? Highly recommended

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I knew about Isabella and Fernando expelling the jews, but not about the Portuguese. I wonder why, then, so many Jews fled from Portugal to the Netherlands and other parts in 1580/81?

Because they were not expelled from The Netherlands.