Extra Pack, Existing Civs, part5: Russia, Japan, France

[Hagbart]

Yes Shukov must be the same as Zhukov.

If Jeanne d'Arc stays as the leader of the French her title should be Saint imo.

[Schee]

If Jeanne d'Arc stays as the leader of the French her title should be Saint imo.

Her title should be Sainte (she wasn't a queen )

Petain? Do you really think?

Hmm... Pétain did great things during the WWI, but not during the WWII... so I think it should not be in the list

For leaders:
Bonaparte should rather be Napoléon (or Napoléon Ier)
De Richelieu : "Richelieu" is sufficient I think (or Cardinal de Richelieu)
De Lattre

And about Lausanne, Genêve, etc, I think Lille and Strasbourg should be in France, Lausanne, Basel, Genêve and Bern in Switzerland (Bern is the capital of Switzerland so I think it should be in Switzerland and not in Germany... seems more logical... ), etc... each city in its country...

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Some French leaders other than Louis, and supposing that Jeanne (we should change leader names into the correct language, too!) stays #1.

Bonaparte
Charlemagne
De Gaulle
Lancelot
Maginot
Pepin
De Richelieu
Robespierre
Roland

And, of course, Elaeonore d'Aquitane.

Bonaparte OK
Charlemagne which country ? France or Germany
De Gaulle OK
Lancelot NO
Maginot NO
Pepin NO
De Richelieu No need of 'De'
Robespierre Political leader
Roland (yes, good choice)

Some more ideas
Du Guesclin (hero of the 100 year's war)
Gilles de Rais (marshal of France during Joan of Arc's time)
Bayard (often called the last real knight)
Enghien (Duke of) defeated the Spanish tercios and protected the young Louis XIVth's kingdom
Clemenceau the political leader who enabled the victory of the first world war. Petain was his military counterpart but since he did it through the killing of waves of soldiers and since his behavior during the second world war was not so nice (did he have the choice ? is another question).
D'Artagnan for the ones who like Dumas or the numerous movies
Surcouf famous French privateer
Coligny French admiral and general of the French protestant until St Barthelemy

[Wernazuma III]

French leaders updated.

[Ribannah]

Wernazuma, do we get an icon for female Great Leaders such as Aliénor d'Aquitaine?

[SubLimey]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Wernazuma III


I simply wanted to use the "russianized" name, but I'm not sure.


I think the correct russianized spelling would be Sankt Peterburg. If I'm not mistaken Petrograd was a post revolutionary name prior to Lenin's death, after which it became Leningrad.

Reminds me of a tale I heard once (possibly tall). The Soviets did a four question survey: Where were you born? Where did you go to school? Where do you live? Where would you like to live? To which someone responded: Saint Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad, Saint Petersburg.

[Schee]

Charlemagne shouldn't be in France nor in Deutschland... (though he started in France and then conquered Germany hmm I think many Germans would say the contrary)

If Lancelot can't be here, I don't undertsand why d'Artagnan should

Gilles de Rais... hmm... I was accused of satanism, abduction, chlid and women murder, sodomy, etc... that's not exactly what I would call "a Great Leader" ...

Maybe Charlemagne was not really French, but Pepin III was the first King of the Frankish Carolingian Dynasty (and the father of Charlemagne). He must be in the list

And Bonaparte should be Napoléon or Napoléon Bonaparte (or "Napoléon Bonaparte, Grand Empereur des Français et conquérant de l'Europe" but maybe it's a bit much )

That's all

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Schee
Charlemagne shouldn't be in France nor in Deutschland... (though he started in France and then conquered Germany hmm I think many Germans would say the contrary)

I only know that he said he was "diutisce" and not "walahisce". The "diutisce" is the root of "Deutsch", whereas the "Welsch" meant the language of romanized Celts, or romanic languages in general (it still does today in many parts)

If Lancelot can't be here, I don't undertsand why d'Artagnan should

Don't worry, neither will be in

Gilles de Rais... hmm... I was accused of satanism, abduction, chlid and women murder, sodomy, etc... that's not exactly what I would call "a Great Leader" ...

Maybe a reason to remove him again

Maybe Charlemagne was not really French, but Pepin III was the first King of the Frankish Carolingian Dynasty (and the father of Charlemagne). He must be in the list

As someone already said: Maybe it's a good idea simply not to include any German or French leader before the separation of the Frankish Empire.

Napoléon changed.

[Wernazuma III]

Sub Limey: Probably you're right, I'll change it back again. But AFAIK, St. Petersburg was renamed in 1914 because it sounded "too German"...

[Schee]

Hmm about Charlemagne, Germany, France, etc you're right. No leader before the separation of the Frankish Empire. And we shouldn't talk about Charlemagne again. That would be better. Though......

And about Saint Petersburg :

Found here
In 1914, the town changed its name from the German Sankt Petersburg into Russian Petrograd, but after Lenin died in 1924 it was renamed into Leningrad. Just before the end of the Soviet period, in 1991, the city's inhabitants decided to go back to its original name Sankt Peter(s)burg

[edit] But its region is always called Leningrad. Strange, isn't it ? no ? [/edit]

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I only know that he said he was "diutisce" and not "walahisce". The "diutisce" is the root of "Deutsch", whereas the "Welsch" meant the language of romanized Celts, or romanic languages in general (it still does today in many parts)

"Walahisce" probably denotes "Waals" (Wallonic, French).
"Diutisce" could very well equal Dutch rather than Deutsch, since the low lands were a firm part of his empire while eg Saxony was only really conquered much later and more eastern parts of Germany were never part of his empire.

Charlemagne was king of the Franks - officially so, approved by the Pope as was the custom in those days.
Not of the Teutons.
While the Franks originally started out in a part of Germany, they extended their territory to the west.
Even while France not exactly equalled Franks in Charlemagne's days (there were eg Gallicians and Bretons to consider) in view of the above I'd say that he belongs on the French list of leaders only; I'm still inclined to pick him over Jeanne d'Arc as the eternal Leader of France.

[Wernazuma III]

I think you got some point, yet not completely. I think the terms "Wallonic" and "Dutch" simply reflect this old division between Germanic languages and romanic languages.
The Teutons were never a people anyway and the Franks were not French. They weren't Germans either, they were Franks (and Charlemagne spoke diutisce )...

[Schee]

Hmm... I can't keep silent :

the Franks were not French. They weren't Germans either

OK the Franks were not really French, but "Frankreich" looks like "Frank", no ? And if the France is named Frank Empire by Germans, I think that the Franks were more French than Germans... And the French currency was (before €) the Franc...

[Wernazuma III]

France is called Frankreich because the Eastern half (Germany) developed into the Holy Roman Empire and so it was called for quite a while. That doesn't mean that Germans are more Roman though...

[Selanne]

Sankt-Peterburg

At least thats how my atlas lists it.