What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by siredgar
I'll move the Greeks and Germans ahead of the Russians.

Don't do this, pleeeese.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by siredgar
Anyhow, Germany lost two world wars, Russia sided with the winners in both (even though WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution hurt them badly).

In what WWII is concerned, it would be more accurate to say that the winners sided with Russia. And this is what finally made them the winners.

[The Vagabond]

As for the list in general (here I refer to the second version of the list), I agree that the English, the Chinese and the Romans warrant the first three places. Perhaps, not necessarily in the order given by siredgar, but they definitely form the leading group. As for the second group (places from 4th to 8th), it is also reasonable. Well, again, one could argue about the particular place distribution within this group, but IMHO all the civs of this group are rightfully there.

As for the American Civilization, it is actually counted twice in the list. First, it counts as a legacy of the English Civilization. It's only due to this legacy that the English deserve the first place in the list. On the other hand, it counts as a civilization by itself.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by siredgar
The English conquered the Scots, Welsh, and Irish and then formed the British Empire.

Actually, the English did not perminently conquor the Scots. Edward the first claimed the contested Scottish crown and fought over Scotland for most of his reign but as soon as he was dead the English were once again out of Scotland. Scotland remained independent until Elizabeth the first died without and heir and Scottish King James the VI became the King of England as well as of Scotland. Thus, in a way, the Scots took over the English and not the other way around. In order to highlight this change James decided to call his new kingdom Great Britian (which included the Kingdoms of England & Scotland plus the Duchy of Wales) and this became the official name of the country after the Act of Union one hundred years later.
Later when Ireland was official incorporated as part of the home kingdom the name was again changed to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland or U.K. for short.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
In what WWII is concerned, it would be more accurate to say that the winners sided with Russia. And this is what finally made them the winners.

Certainly the Russian front was the most important in the war but the British and French were at war with Germany before the USSR got caught up in it. So how could they have followed? Of course it is doubtful they would have won without the Red Army taking on most of the German land forces.

[morb]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Certainly the Russian front was the most important in the war but the British and French were at war with Germany before the USSR got caught up in it. So how could they have followed? Of course it is doubtful they would have won without the Red Army taking on most of the German land forces.

I give much respect to the Brits, but France practicly rolled out the welkommen mat for the Germans when they bypassed their silly bunker line by going through Belgiam.

[morb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

Originally posted by siredgar
I put "Europe" in quotes meaning an idea of a cultural sphere. You cannot deny that many Russians have an identity crisis figuring out if they are "European", "Eurasian", or "Russian". The last time I heard, according to a poll, more than half of all Russians picked the last two choices instead of wanting to be called "European". Anyhow more than two-thirds of Russia is in Asia.

that's just silly. of course there is the 'traditional' western europe which practicly everyone in the west thinks of when just "europe" is mentioned. gee, why would that be?

As far as the poll, well, of course if given the choice between the three most would probably say Russian. If mexicans were asked "are you mexican, north-central american or american" which would you think they would choose? that's just a stupid poll.

The fact is, Russia is is in europe and more than 90% of its population resides west of the Ural mountains. There is no "identity crisis." We know who we are, but you don't. And that's the difference.

The Greeks never had worldwide influence. They did have a tremendous impact on Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, but their territory was still smaller than the top 12 I have listed. But because of their great contributions, I have put them ahead of a few of these. Anyhow, their rule over the larger part of the lands they conquered was "relatively" short-lived.

the Greek Empire under Alexander the great had more terretory and more influence than did the roman Empire. They conquered all of Persia and mid east for goodness sakes. look at a map and tell me the romans had more territory at their peak. That the empire was not stable after Alexander is what led to the conquest being short-lived, but its culture has taken root as far north as Russia, west into rome (who incorporated it and spread it again), south to egypt etc. All those cultures that were influenced just propegated the bits of greek culture which they have assimilated. If you want to think of it in a more modern context, ever have to find the area or circumference of a circle? ever work with triangles in a geometry or trigonametry class? a millennia later we still use pythagorus' and Archimedes' math. what about the word "alphabet" and the first two letters of it in almost all european languages? constellations and fret houses? the greek culture lives on today in the most real ways. if there were no greece, you couldn't complain about civ3 being released as a "beta", could you? If that's not "world-wide" influence, then what is?

lastly, it seems that the russians have taken more offence about greece being in such a lower spont than anything that's been said about russia here.

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

Originally posted by siredgar
I'm sorry to say this since I defended you on this matter before in another thread, but my geography is a thousand times better than your English.

Oh, sure.

I put "Europe" in quotes meaning an idea of a cultural sphere.

Silly boy.
You think I didn’t understand this? I just had to answer it somehow, so I’ve answered like I did (to piss you off a little. ).

You cannot deny that many Russians have an identity crisis figuring out if they are "European", "Eurasian", or "Russian". The last time I heard, according to a poll, more than half of all Russians picked the last two choices instead of wanting to be called "European". Anyhow more than two-thirds of Russia is in Asia.

Crisis?
Why should I deny truth?
We are unique civilization-we are European on half and Asian on another half. Our geographical location and our history make us unique.

The Greeks never had worldwide influence. They did have a tremendous impact on Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, but their territory was still smaller than the top 12 I have listed.

Blah,
The Greeks dominated over all known world of that time.
Their territory was smaller then territory of Arabs, Germans, Babylonians, Egyptians and French?
Look at modern map if you don’t have any ancient map. Every city with name Alexandria form Egypt to India is founded by Greeks. The spread of Hellenism on those territories had huge impact on cultures.

But because of their great contributions, I have put them ahead of a few of these. Anyhow, their rule over the larger part of the lands they conquered was "relatively" short-lived.

It brings us to the question I’ve asked TWICE and still didn’t receive an answer.
Greek’s rule over those territories lasted for centuries. They made a huge scientific and CULTURAL legacy. You put them on 12 and later on 8 places. At the same time you put USA on 4 th place. The USA becomes more or less powerful country only after WW2 and even after this time it was not a single super power. You become a single super power only after collapse of the Soviet Union. It means that your rule as super power last only 11 YEARS. In compare with CENTURIES it’s nothing. From historical perspective you suck as civilization. If you created poll about the greatest countries ever, then your list might have some sense, but you asked about CIVILIZATIONS. As CIVILIZATION you suck. In compare to Greece you deeply suck. They scientific and cultural legacy is huge. What your “civilization” left for humanity? Britney Spears and Spiderman? You even don’t have your own alphabet.
Succkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers.
Perhaps in say year 2502 A.C. some might say about USA as about civilizaton, but not today. As civilization you are children now.

Which brings me to another matter. Do you read carefully the posts of others? Do you know what the word "relatively" means?

Sure I know what it means. It seems that you don’t understand its meaning.

Tell the Russians to come and invade this thread.

They are already there. Hi guys.

I'm sure they will crumble to logic and reason, just like their form of government did.

Oh sure.
You are the only one who denies logic here.

P.S. Perhaps I should call for Paiktis to enlighten you about Ancient Greece?

[morb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

/me high fives serb.

[Serb]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


In what WWII is concerned, it would be more accurate to say that the winners sided with Russia. And this is what finally made them the winners.

Exactly!

S nastupayushim!!!
Eti oleni dazhe ne otmechayut Den pobedy kak gosudarstvennyi prazdnik. ‘Pobeditely’ huevy.

[morb]

Originally posted by Serb

Exactly!

S nastupayushim!!!
Eti oleni dazhe ne otmechayut Den pobedy kak gosudarstvennyi prazdnik. ‘Pobeditely’ huevy.

zdes' trudno nayti ludey katoriye dazhe znayut chto takoy vtaraya mirovaya voina. zabud' o dne popedi...

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

Originally posted by morb
lastly, it seems that the russians have taken more offence about greece being in a lower spont, than russia herself. count me in on that i guess.

Mozhet pora eto ispravit?

zdes' trudno nayti ludey katoriye dazhe znayut chto takoy vtaraya mirovaya voina. zabud' o dne popedi...

"Vot urody"
"Brat-2".

Ne smoterel sluchaino? Klassnyi film. Davno ty tam?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why hasn't Serb started his fit yet? I thought my post on Russia would set him off, but all it did was spark an intelligent debate. That isn't what I was going for...

Re-read my first post then. Never noticed sign *WARNING* there? It was pure trolling and my personal revenge to siredgar.


But, if you want to start a real fight, any time. Just say it. I guess you are desendent of Vikings. Am I right?

[morb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are the greatest civilizations of all time?

Originally posted by Serb
"Vot urody"
"Brat-2".

Ne smoterel sluchaino? Klassnyi film. Davno ty tam?

ne-a. zdes' desyat let. skoro 11. proshlim letom pravda k rodstvinnikam v belgorodskuyu oblast' yezdil.

[Serb]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Ecthelion, it seems you've got a kind of small/pns complex towards Russia.

He killing kittens to often.