CivIII not balanced why?Expansionist Rubbish

[Fayadi]

I plays Civ games for a long time.I dont understand could someone pls explain or argue with me whats so good about expansionist!?I am not newbie ,i really wanna listen to a "good" reason of how Apolyton's think about Expansionist because I am a regular member of Civfanatics.I know lots of civfanatics's (but not all)thinks Expansionist is Rubbish.In civilisations topic,I heard somebody said the game isnt balance because America is too good and about the super F-15 stuff! thats the best joke i heard in Civilisation discussion.I said any civ that have a special unit that is naval unit or air unit is most unlucky!Civ III main military relies on ground(Nuclear exceptional)I really wanna listen of how some crazy ppl loves Expansionist

[Saint Marcus]

The Expansionist attribute kicks ass if you play on a 255x255 map, with a huge pangea style continent. With the scouts you can get a massive amount of techs from villages (and barbarians won't pop up). You can get a HUGE tech lead.

On just about all other map sizes it's pretty useless.

[Moraelin]

Starting with a 2 move scout and making some 2 more, then setting them on automatic explore, means that with a single continent you'll raid all goody huts before your opponents even research their first science advance. ALSO expansionist means you ALMOST ALWAYS get something good from those huts. Basically you'll be technologically in the middle ages before your Scientific opponents even figure out the wheel (unless they start with it).

If you're telling me that a trait which can give you a MASSIVE tech lead is useless... can I have some of that good stuff you're smoking?

No arguments about the F-15 being a good candidate for THE most useless UU in the game, though.

[player1]

Commercial, Industrious, Religious, Scientific.
Everybody knows to use them properly.

Warmonger knows how to use Militiarstic trait, but not some
empire-builders.

Expansionistic trait is VERY USEFULL.

But,

Only,

If you KNOW,

HOW

TO USE IT.

If you don't use it well, then it's waste of time.

But, if you know, NOBODY WOULD beat you.

[player1]

Better thing from Barbarian Villages.

Very usefull...

But, if you are one of SAVE/RELOAD guys, you'll probably use some other trait.

This one is from Ironmen style players (or MP guys).

P.S.
This trait will be much interesting in MP (when it comes out).

[Kolyana]

Hey,

I

....

Can ....

talk like

THAT

too

[Fayadi]

look I agree when u have advantages at early game...but......this is the only advantage u have from an expansionist civ?Any other CSA will serve u well throughout the game,if u r thinking to get those huts r u saying the AI is dumb too not to get those huts if they are expansionist too?Industrious is excellent throughtout the game.....for early game ur city grows faster because of irrigation.so the most number of tech u can get from exploring scout in my opnion is 3.3 tech versus Scientific ability which also gives u 3 tech plus cheaper schools!Industrious are too good to be true extra shield faster worker cool!!!

[player1]

As I said it is good ONLY if you know how to use it.

And how to EXPLOIT that early advantage.

If you don't know, then I suggest you NOT to use it.

It will make more harm then help.

[Fayadi]

How good could u go if u use Expansionist?Experts dont play expansionist!Tell me just explain how good could u go?ppl in CivFanatics who beat AI in deity levels,emperors dont use expansionist.Dont give me the crap if only i know how to use it!
Expansionist is really rubbish if u compare with high end ability like commercial,industrious,militaristic

[Moraelin]

LOL. I can have all ancient techs by 2500 BC or so, and you're telling me it's not an advantage that will last me through the whole game? I can have pikemen and knights before the other civs even figured out how to make horsemen. I can start building Sun Tzu's art of war or just about any other ancient wonder before most other civs are even half way there with the research. And from there, I can go up the research tree to make Musketmen before the rest of the world even got Knights.

Jesus Christ.... If THAT kind of advantage is useless for you, WHAT would have counted as balanced in your book? Something that just gives you a button that says "push here to instantly win the game"?

And besides, wth, I guess that's what balanced means. Some people prefer this, other people prefer that. If you don't like the Americans' traits and UU, go play some other civ that has the traits you like more. It's that simple.

[jgflg]

Originally posted by Moraelin
LOL. I can have all ancient techs by 2500 BC or so, and you're telling me it's not an advantage that will last me through the whole game? I can have pikemen and knights before the other civs even figured out how to make horsemen. I can start building Sun Tzu's art of war or just about any other ancient wonder before most other civs are even half way there with the research. And from there, I can go up the research tree to make Musketmen before the rest of the world even got Knights.

Jesus Christ.... If THAT kind of advantage is useless for you, WHAT would have counted as balanced in your book? Something that just gives you a button that says "push here to instantly win the game"?

And besides, wth, I guess that's what balanced means. Some people prefer this, other people prefer that. If you don't like the Americans' traits and UU, go play some other civ that has the traits you like more. It's that simple.

What kind of map are you playing on? I usually find two or three techs at most on a standard map.

[jgflg]

Originally posted by Fayadi
How good could u go if u use Expansionist?Experts dont play expansionist!Tell me just explain how good could u go?ppl in CivFanatics who beat AI in deity levels,emperors dont use expansionist.Dont give me the crap if only i know how to use it!
Expansionist is really rubbish if u compare with high end ability like commercial,industrious,militaristic

Actually one of the best civs for winning on Deity is expansionist, the Iroquis. But that's because of their UU and probably despite the expansionist. Playing on a standard map in Deity you can gain an advantage with the scouts, but it depends on your strategy. If you do a massive warrior rush at the start then scouts are great for finding enemy towns. I tend to wait until I get horseman though and by then usually the other civs are already up against your borders. My personal preference is the Egyptians with Religous and Industrious, but I don't really like the war chariot as a UU.

Assuming you do an early despot rush playing on Deity or Emperor, the UU available to a civ is more important than any specific traits since the game will usually be won or lost in the ancient-early medieval eras.

[HalfLotus]

Tech from goody huts give you an early tech lead. You can parley this lead for the rest of the game if you're careful. Trading techs is also the best way to earn cash.

When I'm behind in tech, I trade luxuries mostly get back in it. When I'm ahead in tech, I trade luxuries AND tech for a huge lead.

[Moraelin]

Originally posted by jgflg
What kind of map are you playing on? I usually find two or three techs at most on a standard map.

Large map (but not huge), large land mass, single continent. I usually find plenty of techs even on the standard map, though. I do, however, fire-and-forget three scouts immediately, before even building a warrior to defend that first city.

Admittedly, the key there is is the single continent. Expansionist scouts do become useless if you play archipelago, and not worth it even with continents. So you'll have to trade the protection of having water between you and some opponents early in the game, for techs.

[John Paul Jones]

The expansionist trait is cancelled out when playing the any of the americans with the default options on (cultures start next to each other). Both the Americans and Iroquois are expansionist and the Aztecs have the jaguar warrior which is better than a scout. And how many expansionist wonders are there ?