The Science of Civs

[siredgar]

ntyatecafe,

I've completed the math for the Romans and it is quite interesting:

Only 73 turns in the game, compared to 138 turns for the Americans.

Interesting, huh?

Sir Edgar

[ntyatecafe]

Originally posted by siredgar
ntyatecafe,

I've completed the math for the Romans and it is quite interesting:

Only 73 turns in the game, compared to 138 turns for the Americans.

Interesting, huh?

Sir Edgar

That's Rome from start-to-finish?

Good Job!!!

(I still haven't gotten the chance to look up factual timelines for these civilizations. My boss needs to realize that some things are far more important than work!)

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by Earendil
The problem is that you are looking at this the wrong way. The majority of the slinter groups are not racial or culturaly connected as i said. So get that notion firmly planted. I'm not saying Korea is a part of China and If your so offended by that then make it a spinter group of Japan.

Some of the splinter groups represented peoples ruled by the orgininal (civ3 original here people) civ like german/prussia ruled parts of poland. I'm not saying that poles are german i'm saying they are rebelling from thier foriegn rulers. So putting Korea under japan is accurate as Japan ruled Korea and this would show the rebelion of the Korean people against thier occupiers. I however wanted Korea to have a chance to join the game earlier.

What the Idea of this is is that all empires have to have this chance to have a rebelion. If it works. There are few cases of rebelions ever succeding so I had to take other near by empires and make them the splinter group. Thats all i did. I was in no way ment to be a statement on who was part of who and what came first. It was a simple means to get 16 new empires into the game. This is why I put a disclaimer on it. So please get over your offended feelings and see this for what it is. If people come up with better Ideas for splinter groups then they can be used I silply put in a lot of races that i would like to see in.

You peole need to stop being offended as such small slights. Read the DISCLAMERS they are there so that you understand that the authour realizes that things are not perfect.

If I'm offended, than make Corea a splinter group of Japan??? That's supposed to be better???

Ok, building off what siredgar said, look at this:

China claimed suzerainty over Corea some time before the European invasions. This was not true (though, granted, it can be arguable), but nonetheless, that's what the Chinese claimed.

Now look at pre-World War II Europe. Franco owed a lot to Hitler, who provided him with weapons, men, and foundation for ideology. He certainly owed as much to Hitler, if not more, as the Coreans did to their Chinese "suzerains." So, then, why not make Spain a splinter group of Germany? This would make sense, right??

Of course, I'm sure you have an extensive background in European history, and thus, you respect Spain for its rich and longstanding culture through the centuries. Even though it was horribly weakened by the time World War II rolled around, at least it was once a huge powerbroker in Europe. So, the idea of making Spain a splinter group of Germany seems PREPOSTEROUS to you.

Well, if you had any background in Asian history, then you would appreciate Corea for its rich and longstanding culture through the centuries. Even though it was horribly weakened by the time the Europeans invaded Asia, at least it was once a huge powerbroker in Asia. So, the idea of making Corea a splinter group of China (or, especially, Japan) seems PREPOSTEROUS.

[Veracitas]

Re: The Science of Civs

Originally posted by ntyatecafe

America--138 turns
England--326 turns
France--364 turns
China--471 turns
Egypt--531 turns

Just a quick question. Would you say that the Egyptians as a Civilization have existed for 6000 years/531 turns? I remember having a big debate in one of my classes about this, and some of us took the position that Ancient Egypt was destroyed by the Macedonian invasions (ie. Alexander the Great). I guess it all depends on your definitions for "Civilization" though.

In Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, "civilization" is defined as:

n (1772) 1 a: a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specif: the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained b: the culture characteristic of a particular time or place 2: the process of becoming civilized 3 a: refinement of though, manners, or taste b: a situation of urban comfort.

Religion is another thing. The ancient Egyptians believed in Osiris and the godhood of Pharaohs. The Egyptians today are primarily Muslim (maybe you could argue that Ancient Egyptian civilization died with the introduction of the Caliphates.. ??).

So, then, what is the criteria for the perpetuation of a "civilization"...(ie. should Babylon survive, simply change its name to Iraq as the turns progress? or should we recognize that Babylonian and Iraqi culture are two very different things and make them two distinct civilizations??)

[ntyatecafe]

Regarding your question:

Just a quick question. Would you say that the Egyptians as a Civilization have existed for 6000 years/531 turns? I remember having a big debate in one of my classes about this, and some of us took the position that Ancient Egypt was destroyed by the Macedonian invasions (ie. Alexander the Great). I guess it all depends on your definitions for "Civilization" though.

No, in my opinion the true Egyption civilization died out some time ago; however, when I made that chart, the argument of the time was (made by those who didn't want America in the game) that if relatively young civilizations are allowed in the game, then they should only become available after the year in which they came into existance.

I made the chart mearly to prove that point to be ludicrous and wasteful of discussion time. I haven't built a chart of the true chronology of civilizations yet (being that I don't know when most came into existance, or fell from power), but Siredgar has come up with a reasonable theory that Rome would only last for about 73 (78?) turns.

[Aqualung]

I was expecting a discussion on the SCIENCE of CIVS!

Someone, go down the list of techs. Name the CivIII Civ that is responsible for each.

Koreans invented the printing press (at least, that's what I learned from watching MASH), but in the CivIII context, that award should go to Germany. If not, then either China or Japan.

Whatever. If it wasn't invented by a CivIII civ, then just pick the civ that came second, third or whatever in utilizing it.