New Civs where they belong

[Q Classic]

http://www.pennfamily.org/KSS-USA/hist-map6.html

http://deall.ohio-state.edu/culture/eall131/related.htm

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1540.htm

http://warmemo.co.kr/choson_dynasty.htm

http://www.advanced-taekwondo.net/choonus.htm

[Dr. Nick]

Originally posted by Libertarian
The Hillbillies

Expanionist/Commercial

Special unit: Granny with a Shotgun — (special infantry) 7-6-1

[siredgar]

Is that granny a UU?

That's one tough granny there-- 7.6.1.

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by Libertarian
The Hillbillies

Expanionist/Commercial

Special unit: Granny with a Shotgun — (special infantry) 7-6-1

they understand commerce?

i'd say militaristic, maybe give them a militia unit too

[bigvic]

Koreans and Sahel

Anyone interested in the history of the thing, which would be most, I suppose, check out Qcubed's websites on Korean history, esp. the turtle ship of Admiral Yi. I'm convinced.
Koreans: industrious, commercial- special unit: turtle ship, caravel, +2 attack Anyone care to come up with a city list?

Ok, I've been doing some research. One of the civs I suggested was "Songhai", a West African civ from the middle ages. Upon researching the topic a bit, I've decided to call it the Sahel, the name of the region in general, since the Songhai were only the third of three similar, successive empires than arose and fell in the area from around 900 A.D., til roughly 1600 A.D..
The first was the Ghana empire. They, like their two successor states, grew rich and powerful off the trade, in gold, ivory, gems and slaves, passing north and south to and from the Medeterranean/Islamic world and Central Africa. Some of its cities included Timbuktu (the capital), Jenne-Jono, and Kumbi Saleh. The Ghana was the king, like the Inca, half a world away, and the succesion of the royal family was matriarchal, the son of the king's sister having the right to succeed to the throne. This was the practice of the two succeding civs as well. They were anti Islamic, and finally succumbed to an Islamic Berber (another possible alt. civ) invasion around 1100.
The fsecond was the empire of Mali, founded by a fellow named Sundiata, "Lion King", a magician. It reached its hieght under Mansu Musa, who was a devout Muslim, and whose extravagant pilgrimage to Mecca was much discussed in the Islamic world, and who sponsered extensive public works, includung mosques, and universities. Some cities and regions included Senegal, Mande, Gao, Djenne. It was charactarized as a rather loose empire. It also succumbed to the Berbers in 14 68.
The final chapter was the Songhai. Founded around 1500, by Sonni Ali, they were a much more tightly woven empire, renowned for excellent light cavalry and swift ships (?, need to research these more for possible special units). Under Muhammed Toure, founder of the Askia dynasty, government was centralized with a formal beauracracy, and weights and measures were standardized. It reached its height from 1549 - 1582 and was the largest empire in African history. Once again, however, the Berbers, in the guise of the Morrocans, ended the party in 1591.

So, what you think? More to come. Feel free to contribute similar stuff!

[ntyatecafe]

Re: korea cool

Originally posted by bigvic
*England - pirate (tougher privateer) or line infantry (rifleman 3-7-1 -"thin red line")
*France - guards (rifleman - 4-6-1) or cannon corps (cannon +1 bombard - Napoleon's specialty)
*Russia - heavy artillery (atillery +1 bombard)
*Japanese - pre-dreadnaught (ironclad, +1 attck, could use sprite of ironclad from ctpII - as per Japanese ships used to destroy Russian fleet at Tsushima, 1905)
*American - GI (infantry, +1 or +2 attck - M-1 Garand equipped infantry from WWII)

Good idea on Russia! I used to teach Soviet artillery tactics and capabilities when I was in the Army. They center all of their tactics around their artillery. The special unit I'd suggest for them would be either the 2S7 (Self-Propelled 203mm Artillery with range of 50 km [RAP]), or the 9A52 (Self-Propelled MRLS with 12 tubes and range of 70 km, and special submunitions).

as far as America goes, what about the M1 Abrahm's Main Battle Tank? One of the most sophisticated in the world with Hunter/Killer systems, laser range and guidance, auto-tracking, reinforced special armor, high speed, and the ability to fire while moving? (of course the main problem with these has always been getting them to the battlefield).

[Plan Austral]

Incas
should be industrious and expansionist
Mayas
religious and scientific.

[siredgar]

The Portuguese are more likely commercial and expansionist, while the Koreans are probably scientific and religious.

[Bilo]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
the Jantisars (turkish UU)
shoud replace Musketman and Rileman.
that is then historical correct.

I disagree with that. The Jannisaries were the infantry of the Ottoman army form mid 14th to 18th century, they were gone long before rifles were used. Allthough they used firearms they mostly fought hand to hand (espetially in the early years of the Ottoman Empire). However, I think the UU of a Turkish/Ottoman civ should be its light cavalry(Sipahi) , because giving a defansive UU to a aggresive civ does not make much sense.

Also, at the height of the Ottoman empire majority of the army was light cavalty who were armed with javelins(or sometimes with bows) and swords. They were succesfull against the Europian powers, because a fast-moving cavalry with ranged attack is unstopable with infantry and able to outmaneuver opposing heavy cavalry to attack their flanks. "Sipahi", a 4/2/3 unit that replaces knights and costs the same(both shields and resources) would be better, I belive.

[bigvic]

Janissary?Sipahi

Thats an interesting point. Sipahi probably would be a more historically accurate UU. I juat hate to give up on the janissary. Some people who aren't exactly history savvy actually recognize the word janissary, though I doubt many know what it was. For this reason, the sort of archetypal nature of the word, I still think the janissary would be best. There is something undeniably cool about Christian slave kids raised to be kick*ss Islamic shock troops. I think they should be like longbowmen, w/2 defence.

[Zealot]

Re: New Civs where they belong

Originally posted by bigvic
Portuguese - commercial/industrious - far trader: caravel, +1 to attack or move

Portuguese Industrious?

No, my friend. Absolutely not. Never in our history so far.
We were more like expansionists. That's why our empire streched from the Amazon river fountain to Macau. That's pretty much the world in width.
But commercial, yes, absolutely! The Portuguese expanded so far exactly to trade for valuable items!

[Bilo]

Re: Janissary?Sipahi

Originally posted by bigvic
Thats an interesting point. Sipahi probably would be a more historically accurate UU. I juat hate to give up on the janissary. Some people who aren't exactly history savvy actually recognize the word janissary, though I doubt many know what it was. For this reason, the sort of archetypal nature of the word, I still think the janissary would be best. There is something undeniably cool about Christian slave kids raised to be kick*ss Islamic shock troops. I think they should be like longbowmen, w/2 defence.

Making the janissary to replace the longbowman is much better than having a pikeman(which is a unit that rarely attacks) with one extra attack. However, 4/2/1 for 40 shilds that can be built after invention is nothing but a expensive immortal that comes late and does not require iron. Giving it an extra attack value and making it 5/1/1 might be a better option; after all janissaries were most often used to attack castles and other fortified positions, and they should be able to take out a pikeman in a town with walls.

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
dutch? swiss? poles? mexicans?

no koreans?

must fix:

------

koreans: scientific/commercial, industrious, or religious, i haven't decided - Kobukson: frigate, 3-3-3, saltpeter, iron.

just a quick question: isn't it Kobuksuh?

[Q Classic]

alas, i cannot type the korean characters, but no, i'm quite sure it's kobukson, at least, as i romanize it.

iirc, the word looks somewhat like this:

arg, i tried doing this with ascii, then with smilies, it's not going to work. :/

first character.

[Veracitas]

lol, ok, i wasn't sure if there was a "ni eun" at the end...

now i know