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Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: Existing civs

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  • Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: Existing civs

    In the main discussion thread the question was raised if we, when we're making an Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack, should change the existing civs as well? The polls about esp. the Zulu and the Iroquois suggest that many people think these civs should be replaced and we should thus be 'allowed' to mess with the existing civs but with this thread I would like to find out how many people would have real objections (and thus would not use the Pack when finished) to making any changes to the existing civs. 'Changes' here can be anything: removing/replacing civs, changing the UU/CSAs/leaders, fixing typo's or obvious mistakes (I've spotted at least 2 already), anything at all... If a reasonable number of people want to go both ways, we can consider an compromise (FE release 2 versions), if a large mayority of people votes for (not) making changes, we'll go with whatever people voted for (and those who oppose the decision will simply have to go to the trouble of making changes or undoing them him/herself or not use the Pack at all).

    Explanation on 'game balance purposes': you should think in terms of preventing we end up with 4 civs with Expansionist/Commercial ability, that there are too many naval Unique Units in the game or UU with identical stats, etc. In this case we'll try to keep the existing stuff the same as much as possible and only make changes in 'emergency situations'. It's quite possible these situations won't occur at all.

    Explanation of 'most glaring errors': In this case we won't do a complete revamp of all city lists and change UUs, leaders, etc whenever we feel (or whatever) but we will only things that are blatantly wrong (FE replace the Zulu, fix only the most obvious flaws in city lists) but not go any further than strictly necessary. (Personally I would very much like to have a good look at the generals and city lists and perhaps 1 or 2 of the leaders and unique units, some room for serious improvement there - that would go beyond fixing the 'most glaring errors')
    40
    No, I think we should leave the existing civs alone and only add new civs
    27.50%
    11
    No, but I think it's okay to make changes to the existing civs for game balance purposes
    22.50%
    9
    Yes, I don't object to making any improvements to the existing civs, next to adding new civs
    32.50%
    13
    Yes, but I think we should limit ourselves to essential things, fix only the most glaring errors
    17.50%
    7
    Other (please explain)
    0.00%
    0
    Don't know/Don't care
    0.00%
    0
    Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

  • #2
    I voted 'No, but ...'. I don´t think we should remove existing civs (not even the Zulus), but let´s tinker with city lists, special units and CSA´s (provided new ones can be added with the next version of the editor).
    "As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW

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    • #3
      Damn, good point, lockstep, I should have added that as an option...
      Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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      • #4
        I completely agree with lockstep.

        To remove certain civs (even the Iroquois!) would cause too much confusion. FIRAXIS patches will be designed for those civs. It would be a mess to change any of those. I know how confusing it was in Civ2 when I changed a civ-slot!
        "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
        "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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        • #5
          Well, I explained in the other thread that we can easily patch wasever Firaxis patches. Basically all you do is change the name, rename the leader and UU, change the city lists & generals and change the CSAs but all for the same civ. IMHO not all that different from changing those properties for different civs...
          Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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          • #6
            What's a CSA?

            I voted for "No, just add new civs". I think we should respect Firaxis idea of game balancing. What we should do is to say what we would like to see if 16 new civs are added in an expansion pack.
            "BANANA POWAAAAH!!! (exclamation Zopperoni style)" - Mercator, in the OT 'What fruit are you?' thread
            Join the Civ2 Democratic Game! We have a banana option in every poll just for you to vote for!
            Many thanks to Zealot for wasting his time on the jobs section at Gamasutra - MarkG in the article SMAC2 IN FULL 3D? http://apolyton.net/misc/
            Always thought settlers looked like Viking helmets. Took me a while to spot they were supposed to be wagons. - The pirate about Settlers in Civ 1

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            • #7
              Is it right that we can add 16 extra-civs to the existing civs? If so, why then remove existing civs (not that I particularly like zulus and iroquois)? Those who otherwise would like the extra pack might obstain to use it just because of this removal.
              "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
              "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Zealot
                What's a CSA?
                CSA = Civ-specific ability (commercial, expansionist etc.)

                Originally posted by Wernazuma III
                Is it right that we can add 16 extra-civs to the existing civs? If so, why then remove existing civs (not that I particularly like zulus and iroquois)?
                AFAIK, only 15 civs can be added (slot No. 32 being used by the Barbarians). Anyhow, it´s also my opinion that the Zulus and Iroquois really deserve to be in the combined Firaxis/Apolyton civs pack.
                "As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW

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                • #9
                  Don't get rid of the Zulus. They are my favorite scrappers-- the AI is so predictable with them, I'd hate to lose the fun of squashing them

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