Babylonian Bowman: The most useless special unit, hands down

[Trachmyr]

Can't go offensive with the greeks? I have staged very early offences with the greeks in 5 out of 8 games so far... Because hoplites are so awesome, you can afford to use fewer of them... thus more attack units. Furthermore, send 1 hoplite with an attack force and you cut down casulties on counter-attacks signifigantly. While you have no special attack capability, once you sieze a city that hoplite virtualy insures that it won't be recaptured! Greeks certainly do rule! And if your worried about swordsmen, find their Iron resources... pillage the road and fortify a hoplite there... no more iron And between the hoplite's 3 defence, fortifing and being on a mountain/hill... they'll use up all their swordsmen TRYING to reclaim the iron... works like a charm!

[ChrisShaffer]

I've played the Babylonians in several games -- and I've never built a Bowman. As a religious and scientific nation, Babylon is a culture bomb waiting to happen. Much better to trigger the Golden Age in the Middle Ages by building wonders....

[Ray K]

Originally posted by justjake73
IMO the worst unit is the Jaguar Warrior. I never use Warriors anyway except as a stopgap. Move of 2 means they can just run away from every other unit in the game.....

This is an ability that I expected in the French unique unit. Or maybe a defender that switched sides as soon as it was attacked

[Ray K]

Hoplites: best UU in the game

Originally posted by Trachmyr
Because hoplites are so awesome, you can afford to use fewer of them...

I would vote for hoplites being the best unique unit in the game. No tech or resource required, they can be built in 4000 BC, and they are the hands-down best defender in the game until gunpowder.

The only downside is that they can trigger an early golden age, so I never use them on the offensive in order to postpone it as long as possible.

Like you, I often play conquest with the Greeks.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by player1
Just note:

Since they cost 20 shields, you can use them for defense instead of spearmen.

If you don't have iron, this unit is very important.
Normally, in that case you would "stack" archers with defensive spearmen.
With Babylonians, you will use only bowman.

I also thought it is a good idea, but not any more. Remember that you may upgrade Spearmen up to Riflemen and Infantry, while you are stack at Longbowmen with Bowmen.

So, as much as I love playing Babilonians (cultural victory etc.) I agree these is one of the worst CSU (F-15 coming close). They would have been much better as originally intended (i.e. 1/2/2 instead of 2/2/1 - at least you could have used them for effective exploration).

[player1]

I think that in PATCH, Swordsmen & Bowmen should be upgradeable to Riflemen.

This way, it isn't that much good idea.

[Grumbold]

I would have expected any infantry to be upgradeable to muskets provided the cost was sufficient to make you think hard about doing a blanket upgrade.

[player1]

Since Musketmen cost twice much then Pikemen or Swordsmen, and its abilities aren't to much better, there is no need to make upgrade.

In fact pikemen to Musketter is probably THE MOST EXPENSIVE UPGRADE IN THE GAME (exept Horsemen to Knight).

Still, at the end you will upgrade your units to Riflemen, and so I think that any earlier foot unit should be upgradeable to Riflemen.