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**Ray K** · November 10, 2001, 10:05

Re: Babylonian Bowman: The most useless special unit, hands down

Originally posted by Leonid
These little buggers get my vote as the lamest special unit in the game.

This special unit is a joke. 2 attack isnt good for jack most civs will have spearmen at least by the time you mobilize to launch any offensive. 2 defense isnt anything special..a spearman can do that. 1 speed, nothing great about that.

Point is I built up about 20 of these special units to clear my island of persia and I coudlnt kill one of his sad spearmen in his first city lost all my units GAWD. The time I wasted building all these i could built a wonder..or alot fo infrastructure.

I have played most the civs and tested all the special untis so i wont belabor that these are the most useless by far. These are good for nothing. Swordmen are way better. SO why even give the babylon this...its a joke. If I want to defend my cities ..i'll do a spearman. These units are too weak for offense so WHY? What are they good for... they cant even explore with 1 speed. I dont get what they are used for, why eve build them? These Units get my vote as the lamest special unit in the game.

Think about it... you are rome...your gonna use the legion..3.3.1, persia an imortal 4.2.1, china rider 4.3.3. I can go on...these bowman units are so lame as too not be better than other untis that are available at the exact same time that they are.

but I am just really irked from that last game.. thus i rant

argh.....

I clear continents with archers all of the time. Babylonian archers couldn't be any worse. The key is to not build 20, but to start with 4-5 and attack them before they get walls. Keep building the other archers while you are capturing cities. Well, I play Tiny with 16 civs so I have to conquer to expand. Much, much more fun.

Yes, there is at least one unique unit that is very, very good: the Greek hoplite. He's basically a pikeman (1.3.1), but he costs less and doesn't require a tech. Well, actually he requires Bronze Working abut the Greeks start the game with that tech.

I build him in 3700 BC and keep him until Musketmen come along. Awesome!

**Wrong_shui** · November 10, 2001, 10:16

I dont like the man-o-war, by the time other civs start to make a form of a navy i already have iron clads. They're useless, they have no one to shoot at!

**Earthling7** · November 10, 2001, 10:25

Originally posted by Wrong_shui
I dont like the man-o-war, by the time other civs start to make a form of a navy i already have iron clads. They're useless, they have no one to shoot at!

Play on a higher difficulty.

I like the Immortals. Very effective

**KoalaBear33** · November 10, 2001, 11:47

One thing you need to consider is resource requirement. I can't remember what the Babylonian unit requires but if it is something easier to get than iron, you have an advantage. I remember playing several games where it took a while to get iron for swordsmen. So I guess the key is to attack before the enemy gets the resources... Or to cut off their resources and then launch a major offensive...

KoalaBear33

**Jon Miller** · November 10, 2001, 12:12

I will agree that bowmen are not the best city busters

but the are good for active use in the country side

they are cheap and have both good offense and defense (for the time) and so can attack and defend outside cities by themselves

Jon Miller

**player1** · November 10, 2001, 14:16

Just note:

Since they cost 20 shields, you can use them for defense instead of spearmen.

If you don't have iron, this unit is very important.
Normally, in that case you would "stack" archers with defensive spearmen.
With Babylonians, you will use only bowman.

Now of course, this unit is pretty "obsolete" for offensive purposes after getting iron.
But, you can still use it for defense & that extra point of attack can get handy if you are attacked with horsemen or archer (just attack them).

**Comrade Tribune** · November 10, 2001, 14:30

If you play Babylonian, Warrior Code should be your first tech.

Build 4-5 Bowmen, overrun your neighbor before they even have spears (if you get lucky).

Bowmen are cheap, early, don´t require resources. They are A/D balanced. A very good special unit, imo.

**Leonid** · November 10, 2001, 16:28

bowmen =

I tried again and bowmen cant even take out warriors reliably. I mean they are pretty expensive and very slow by the time you march them up to the players cities if ya lose all 4 or 5 to a coupel of warriors then you really wasted your time. Not worth it. 5 of them couldnt take out 3 warriorin a zulu city last game. I'd rather have cheap jaguar warriors to throw at a city than bowmen. at leats they are fast and can attack en masse more quickly.

**justjake73** · November 10, 2001, 16:41

IMO the worst unit is the Jaguar Warrior. I never use Warriors anyway except as a stopgap. Move of 2 means they can just run away from every other unit in the game.....

**kmj** · November 10, 2001, 17:14

Originally posted by justjake73
IMO the worst unit is the Jaguar Warrior. I never use Warriors anyway except as a stopgap. Move of 2 means they can just run away from every other unit in the game.....

I don't know, I've been able to take advantage of the movement rate in the field.. if you use them in packs, the ones the first wave can hang back and heal while the second wave cleans up what the first guys couldn't finish off. Warriors are very cheap, so if you get out a good mass of 'em you can overrun early contacts... as long as they haven't gotten city walls up.

**Leonid** · November 10, 2001, 17:18

Nah Aztec Jaguars are really good cool cheap "hut popping" explorers early on. Its like having the expansionist ability along with militaristic and religious. you can turn out a dozen within a few turns and have them cover every part of the continent in no time giving you advances money and civ contact for more advances. Also they can take out barbarian huts everywhere too.

But babylonion bowmen are not good at attack, defense, OR exploring (they are SLOOOOOW) and they cost twice as much as the jaguar warrior. They STINK.

**Trachmyr** · November 10, 2001, 18:11

Actually the bowmen seem to be quite useful until pikemen, as you need not build spearmen at all... and you can still use them to take out approaching warriors/archers. Yes they don't compare to swordsmen, but neither do normal archers.

Egyptian War Chariots are pretty useless except that they are a bit cheaper than horsemen.

Hands down the BEST unit is the hoplite... Greece kicks serious butt. And while INDUSTRIOUS might be better than SCIENTIFIC, the hoplite easily evens the field... a unit you keep from 4000BC to the discovery of GUNPOWDER! Awesome.

**Gaius Marius** · November 10, 2001, 18:45

The f-15 is by far the most useless special unit. It's a rare game that you

a) survive long enough to use it
b) have a serious enough rival to mount an air campaign
c) have a rival that wants to mount an air campaign as well (if they don't, just buy bombers)

It happens, sure, but with almost every other unit you KNOW you will use them. F-15....probably not. What % of your games do you acutally use jet fighters in any numbers?

**cassembler** · November 10, 2001, 18:48

Yeah I tried to use the bowmen clear continent strategy, and even with barracks, I think I only netted like 2 cities before spearmen were everywhere (and the Egyptians were kicking my butt with their chariots). The very, very early golden age, IMHO, is kinda pointless.

GREEKS RULE... I can expand, set up my infrastructure, keep it all defended very well, and STILL trigger my golden age at a much better point (7-15 cities, most with at least temples and/ or libraries.) Of course, I find it almost impossible to go offensive w/ Greeks until much later in the game.

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Babylonian Bowman: The most useless special unit, hands down

Babylonian Bowman: The most useless special unit, hands down

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