Why does the game favor 1 civ over the others?

[DonJoel]

Am Í the only one wondering why the game favors 1 civilizaition over the others?

Why?

1. America gets to have their special units forever. If you so are in the year 2389 amerika will still rule the air. I dont want the f-15 to be bad or anything but it is just strange that it doesnt become obsolete.
I cant understand this. Doesnt Firaxis want the civilizations to be evenly matched?

Who wants to have a special unit for 30 minutes of gameplay compared to 10 hours of gameplay?
In my games the special unit aint so important just because it gets obsolete so fast. This is not the case with the amerikans.

Im just asking why 15 nations got their special unit for a limited time period but 1 dont. Seems a little bit biased to me.

This should be fixed in a patch so that the amerikan f-15 just last for 40 turns or so as everyone elses special unit (even though a late game turn is much longer than an early game turn)

2. America is also the only civ who gets their golden age exaktly at the time of the space race. (!!!)
This means that if you want an easy win you should use the amerikans since they can complete their space ship in half the time unlike the other civs. Imagine the balance issues this would raise in multiplayer.

Some people say that early golden ages will make things even in the end because they get important early game bonuses.
That aint the case. Since the turns pass so fast in the early game you never get to get started before golden age is over. Perhaps you get to build 2-3 units more than usual but nothing game deciding.

No, the fact is that the later the golden age is, the better.
You can easily wipe out an entire civilization in your golden age if you play as the amerikans (and to a lesser extent, the germans).
Why?
Since 25 turns isnt the same in early as in late game.
In early game the 25 turns may take 20 minutes to complete.
25 turns in the late game equalls perhaps 3 hours of gameplay in the late game.
You can easily start and win war in that time, something that isnt possible in an early golden age.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would lika a Firaxians response to this. Not the early vs late golden age dilemma but WHY DOES THE AMERICANS GET TO HAVE THEIR SPECIAL UNIT FOREVER?

It just doesnt make any sense to me. Its just so boring since making 1 civ better than the others lowers the replayability.

I also think that it was a mistake to do the american golden age in the space race. The game slogan is "Rewrite the history" not "Redo the history" isnt it?

I would like someone elses wiew of this.
Am I exaggerating it or am I right?

[Badtz Maru]

The F-15 is not that much better than the other planes, what is it, a 1 point bonus to the attack? Considering that aircraft are not as useful as in Civ2 I don't think this is an unbalancing advantage.

Also, are you not aware that you can have a Golden Age at about any time in history, not just when you get your special unit? Building a wonder will often set it off, so will upgrading your government or winning a lot of territory with non-special units. I am also fairly sure you can have more than one, though I'm not 100% sure on that. I AM 100% certain that I had a pre-1500 Golden Age playing the Americans, and a Golden Age playing the Russians in Ancient times.

I actually think having an early special unit is the bigger advantage - how you do in Ancient times determines how well you will do later on when expansion can be very difficult.

As to America keeping their special unit forever - the game ends in 2050, yes you can continue playing, but if you are playing for score and not just for your own fun America only has access to it's special unit for a relatively small period of time. The Germans get their Panzer too, and I don't think there are any later tanks better than it.

[DonJoel]

The F-15 is not that much better than the other planes, what is it, a 1 point bonus to the attack? Considering that aircraft are not as useful as in Civ2 I don't think this is an unbalancing advantage.

Actually as an air superiority fighter the f-15 isnt better as the modern jet, but it has a very high bombard capacity which means you can use it to about everything, killing bombers, bombing tanks, precision bombing etc.

As to America keeping their special unit forever - the game ends in 2050, yes you can continue playing, but if you are playing for score and not just for your own fun America only has access to it's special unit for a relatively small period of time.

Score? Who cares about scores =)

Really, My biggest concern is that when multiplayer gets out the game will be very imbalanced since the multiplayer games tends to drag in well into the +2200.

The bottom line is that making 1 civilization get their bonus forever is bad politics and will not help the game in anyway.

Also, are you not aware that you can have a Golden Age at about any time in history, not just when you get your special unit? Building a wonder will often set it off, so will upgrading your government or winning a lot of territory with non-special units. I am also fairly sure you can have more than one, though I'm not 100% sure on that. I AM 100% certain that I had a pre-1500 Golden Age playing the Americans, and a Golden Age playing the Russians in Ancient times.

Yep,i know that. But having it earlier as americans seems stupid since they can use it to win the space race easily anyway.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by DonJoel
Really, My biggest concern is that when multiplayer gets out the game will be very imbalanced since the multiplayer games tends to drag in well into the +2200.

don't most MP games end earlier? at least duels should, Diplo games are supposed to last a bit longer though

[mactbone]

Uhhh, I'm the Persians and I can still build Immortals in the Industrial age.... They're not that effective now, but a lot of civs still have spearmen so I can use the Immortals as cheap decent fodder. That way I can roll my cavalry in and wipe 'em out, or I use the Immortals as resistance squashers.

Golden Ages only happen througha UU win, or building the requisite wonder/wonders that coreespond to your abilities. I would imagine if you're doing well enough to think you can win the Space Race you will have already had your Golden Age from Wonders.

[d_dudy]

can't you turn off golden ages from units?

[Faboba]

Wait wait wait wait.

I was under the impression the F-15 was an upgraded JET fighter.

Are you telling me it's an upgraded STEALTH fighter?

That's insane!!! It was created in '67 as the ultimate air superiority fighter! It should ahve upgraded superiority ratings. The only one designed for tactical strikes was the F-15 E and that wasn't produced till 82!

[Pyrodrew]

Relax, you can turn off the Unique Units AND the Unique Bonuses each Civ has. Multiplayer will not be unbalanced. Heck someone could easily go into the editor and make all the Civs get each Unique Unit if they wanted to.

[player1]

One thing:
Jet Fighter:
8/4/6 2/1 (Bomardment/R. of Fire) cost 100, chance of interception 50%
F-15:
8/4/6 4/2 (can perform prec. strikes) cost 100, ch. of interception 50%
F-15:

Stealth Fighter:
0/?/6 4/2 (can perform prec. strikes) cost 120, ch. of interception 5%

So F-15 has stelth fighters abilities regard to bombing, but lacks its low chance of interception.
So after you get stealth, Stelth Fighters are still better suidted for that type of Mission then F-15, and cost just a little more.
In other abilities, like Air superiority F-15 is as usefull, as any other Jet Fighter.

So in fact Stelth makes "obsolte" F-15 only advantage, BOMBING.
You will still use them for Air Superriority, but you will use Stelth fighters for Bombing, like any other nation.

So actully F-15 is well balanced for modern unit, but that Golden age problem still exsist, if ever.
Have anybody expiriened that kind of late Golden Age?

[Ecthy]

good thing you need no ressources for riflemen

as for the F-15 fighters - will there be a Eurofighter unit in the game?

[jadlakha]

American Golden Age in BC time period

I was playing the Americans and I got my golden age at abotu 300 BC. I believe its because I owned all 4 of the wonders of the world by that point in the game.

[Dev]

I'd say that getting you special unit early is a major advantage.

Once you get them Roman legions or Persian immortals rolling the late peaking civs is kneedeep in trouble.
(Especially the romans with mili trait is an awesome early conqueror).

I'd pick any ancient era special unit over the F15 that's for sure.

/dev

[adaMada]

Re: American Golden Age in BC time period

Originally posted by jadlakha
I was playing the Americans and I got my golden age at abotu 300 BC. I believe its because I owned all 4 of the wonders of the world by that point in the game.

same here -- got my golden age early on (not sure why, but probably because I built a wonder or discovered something or something).

For someone to NOT get their golden age by that late in the game -- well, it'd be pretty hard. By that time, the civilization would be so crippled anyway (because of all the things you'd have to NOT get) -- well, it just wouldn't work out -- that Civ would be so weak then, it wouldn't matter, if it even could build space ships...

-- adaMada

[LoD]

Really, My biggest concern is that when multiplayer gets out the game will be very imbalanced since the multiplayer games tends to drag in well into the +2200.

I thought we were talking about Civ3, not SMAC .

[tleilaxu]

the panzer lasts forever as well and the game ends in 2050...

end of arguement