COTW - Japanese

[jdd2007]

i think the japanese UU is pretty balanced. as for the leaving out of the japanese bad points, i think they did the right thing. when i read the german one, i dont want to see a paragraph about the holocaust. lets keep this light-hearted...

[Shadowstrike]

I'm ashamed that they "convinently" left out the massacres in China during WW2, the attack on Pearl Harbour and other such acts that may taint the reputation of an American aligned nation, while they felt no compunctions about doing the same to China, a nation that has not have friendly relations with America at this point. Every nation has its days of glory, and shameful deeds. There should be no double standard in this.

Everybody remembers the Holocaust, but few do of the Japanese massacre of Chinese peasents during the same conflict. Telling only selective truths is an insult and disgrace to the noble ideals of democracy and freedom.

That said, I must admit that the article was well written, and took care not to touch more politically charged events.

[ruckus9]

jdd2007: I was thinking along the same lines as you. Admittedly it's terrible what the Japanese did but then I wasn't so sure if an article about the game should bring it up.

But then again it's still history they're writing even though it is condensed and you should bring up some of the major bad points as well. I mean these things did happen and if we don't remember past crimes, they're bound to happen again.

I actually learned alot of Japanese history (at least the Sengoku period) from a game, but I doubt if a significant amount of people do. It's a tough call for me about the civ3 article, but I do agree history textbooks should present everyone in the same light regardless of the current circumstances.

Anyway I've blabbed long enough. I would say this is off topic but then again the topic is about the cotw update and this does concern it.

[jsw363]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I hate white-washed history. If students were given the facts so they could make a critical evaluation, it would be a much more valuable and interesting learning experience. Instead we dieify or villify historical figures, gloss over the "bad parts" and turn history into national propaganda. At least, that's how U.S. high school history courses are. It's the only subject where the more classes you take, the stupider you get.

They want the game to do well in Japan. If they make the Japanese everyone's immediate enemy by portraying them that way, then they'd lose a lot of business. Besides, Firaxis isn't known for its historical accuracy is it. I personally think it was a smart business move.

Does anyone remember the controversy regarding the different version of "Pearl Harbor" that was released in Japan. Similarly, no one wants to go to a movie to see their country commit atrocities.

[Mars]

They want the game to do well in Japan. If they make the Japanese everyone's immediate enemy by portraying them that way, then they'd lose a lot of business. Besides, Firaxis isn't known for its historical accuracy is it. I personally think it was a smart business move.

I don't think the game does that well in Asia in the first place. I mean there isn't exactly a large number of people from east asia on this board. And from what yin says not many people play the game in japan.

Does anyone remember the controversy regarding the different version of "Pearl Harbor" that was released in Japan. Similarly, no one wants to go to a movie to see their country commit atrocities.

I've seen movies about the japanese contanment camps and many of the other bad things the USA has done so i don't agree with you.

[jdd2007]

i just want everyone to know i am taking nothing away from the horrible atrocities the japanese commited in korea, the philipenes and manchuria, but cmon its just a game...

[jdd2007]

the way i see it, its a lose-lose situation for firaxis on this subject. they will get crap if they do, and if they dont. that is my opinion...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hmmm...the WWII history seems to skip from Pearl Harbor to the U.S. "bloody" invasion of Okinawa and the A-bombs. No mention of Japanese imperialism or atrocities in Korea, China and the Philippines. One would think they were the victims!

So, you'd like them to detail in excrusiating detail every atrocity by every civ? What happened to the Ukrainian massacres under the Russians (Soviets then)? You want them to focus on the Holocaust in the German description, and killing of Natives under American description?

Are you upset that the Aztec description didn't go nuts on their human sacrifices and what they did to rival tribes?

This Japan bashing is a bit much.

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
This Japan bashing is a bit much.

I agree.

[Leonidas]

Game companies are in business to make money - hey, they play games in Japan too. They don't want to offend, even if it is a "distortion" of the facts.

I don't consider this "Japan bashing" - it is a historical fact - Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and caused absolute havoc in the Pacific. Even after 56 years, it is something for which Japan has yet to apologize.

[Leonidas]

Hmmm, the Samurai has better defense than the knight. . . hmmm. . .

Hmmm, it has the same attack values as the knight. . .

There's only one way to settle this issue:

I need two volunteers: one to equip himself like a knight, and the other to be outfitted like a samurai.

Now the both of you find an empty field somewhere and have at it with each other.

Report back on your findings. . .

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So, you'd like them to detail in excrusiating detail every atrocity by every civ? What happened to the Ukrainian massacres under the Russians (Soviets then)? You want them to focus on the Holocaust in the German description, and killing of Natives under American description?
Are you upset that the Aztec description didn't go nuts on their human sacrifices and what they did to rival tribes?

Detail every atrocity no, not in this contest and with few rows of text available for a long history lesson needs. Mentioning yes, definitely. Enough to give a hook for people who would have taken a while to read more details in proper History book.

You know, curiosity sometime needs just an help, and you have the best of both: a game on a realistic background and an opportunity to let someone to look for more history knowledge. Let anyone the opportunity to open his mind from the cage...

[Lord_Davinator]

I agree if you wanna list atrocities then... well every civ would need two pages.... no one is free from guilt.... not the americans not the russians not the chineses and not the japenese.

For the question of samurai's not having horses let me tell you they did use horses but only upper class samurai's used horses to fight most of the other by which I mean the BULK of the samurai fought on foot. So that makes it justifiable to see them on foot...besides they look cooler.

hmmm.... as for a fight between a knight on a horse between a samurai... well it could go either way... samurai's are supposed to be the best swordsmen and those smaurai swords are long...
all of you know about knights... if it was sword to sword I doubt the knight would win... esp. with that bulk of metal on him...

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
In civ2 their capital was Kyoto, now it's Tokyo.
Why?

Kyoto was the capital of Japan founded in 794 A.D. and remained the capital for hundreds of years. I guess they wanted to go with a modern capital this time.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So, you'd like them to detail in excrusiating detail every atrocity by every civ? What happened to the Ukrainian massacres under the Russians (Soviets then)? You want them to focus on the Holocaust in the German description, and killing of Natives under American description?

Are you upset that the Aztec description didn't go nuts on their human sacrifices and what they did to rival tribes?

This Japan bashing is a bit much.

If cannibalism was fair game in describing the Iroquois, why gloss over--or outright ignore--the genocides of other civs? Just because there aren't many Iroquois left around to play the game?