Civ of the Week: Romans

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by d_dudy

well, what's a knight again?

Well, that´s what I mean: I think a Knight should overpower the Legion more decisively. Btw, are Crusaders still in? I am scared they might be not.

and a night will have a movement rate that allows them to attack and retreat.

Not really; they would need movement 3. (Move in, attack, move away. But that would be more like a horse archer.) With m=2, they will be exposed either before or after the attack.

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Well, that´s what I mean: I think a Knight should overpower the Legion more decisively. Btw, are Crusaders still in? I am scared they might be not.

Nope, Crusaders are not in.

[Christantine The Great]

Not really; they would need movement 3.

No, a unit can retreat if it has two movement points and uses one to attack. To assure a safe retreat then you would need 3.

Why do people forget the Pikemen's unique defense bonus that makes it better than a hoplite? It is X2 against units with multiple movement points!

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Bill3000


Nope, Crusaders are not in.

BTW, Crusaders would be a great CSU, for example for Germans (IMHO their Golden Age was the Holy Roman Empire under Frederick Barbarossa, not WWII under Hitler )

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Christantine The Great
No, a unit can retreat if it has two movement points and uses one to attack. To assure a safe retreat then you would need 3.

You didn´t quite get me. If it uses its first MP to attack, then it was open to being attacked the turn before ...

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Martinus

BTW, Crusaders would be a great CSU, for example for Germans (IMHO their Golden Age was the Holy Roman Empire under Frederick Barbarossa, not WWII under Hitler )

Totally agreed. Crusaders would also be quite fitting for the French. The best Musketeers were actually Swedish (Gustaf Adolf´s).

[Roman]

Romans are my favourite civ...

[Kurgan]

It is unbalanced the stats of these three units:
Legion 3/3/1
Immortals 4/2/1
War elephant 4/3/2

The War elephant is an ancient unit (Alexander vs. Poros), and the most effective in defense and attack unit of the ancient age was the legion. The immortals could not beat the Greek hoplites ever it was the opposite (the 10.000 of the anabasis), but they are given 4 in attack, elephants did not beat the roman legions in Zama, and that was before the reforms of Marius, which made the legions even deadlier. In the ancient world, when the legions were reasonably led, they were never beaten. The stats should be changed, because the elephants never were as succesful as the legions, but in the game they are deadlier, and nobody is going to convince me that they are not an ancient unit.

[Comrade Tribune]

I think all three units are too strong, compared to Knights/Riders and probably even Pikes/Muskets.

[Mars]

Making the roman or greek unit any stronger would unbalance the game

[Kurgan]

We are talking here about the special aspects of the different civilizations, if you want a balanced game you just turn off the special abilities and units. But if you talk about the value of the different units it is stupid that the immortals that were never able to defeat the Greek phalanx are stronger not only than the phalanx, but also than legions, which were the only ones that were able to beat the Greeks.

[Comrade Tribune]

I agree. The Mortals should be comparatively early, but comparatively weak.

[Mars]

Originally posted by Kurgan
We are talking here about the special aspects of the different civilizations, if you want a balanced game you just turn off the special abilities and units. But if you talk about the value of the different units it is stupid that the immortals that were never able to defeat the Greek phalanx are stronger not only than the phalanx, but also than legions, which were the only ones that were able to beat the Greeks.

I like the UUs but you have to balance them. They're already early enough you can get iron working in like 20 turns which is nothing so no one would ever be the indians or the babylians because their UU would suck. Anyways the Immortals and the War elepants will aready have a hard time defeating the legion and phlanx because if you remeber when you fortify a unit it has a 50% better defense rating

[orange]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


You didn´t quite get me. If it uses its first MP to attack, then it was open to being attacked the turn before ...

Not necessarily. A legion two spaces away could move next to the knight, using its one MP, and the next turn they'd start off next to each other. The knight uses its first MP to attack, and then scoot.

[Comrade Tribune]

Sure; but I wouldn´t call that exactly a hit-and-run attack, if Your enemy has to come to You to make it work...