Jaguar Warrior: worthless?

[Urban Ranger]

1-1-2? That's hard to use it to kill somebody from another civ to start the Golden Age...

[Solver]

It does at least make a good cheap scout.

[Gramphos]

Dan (almost) said that movement is useful and allows you to retreat from combat. I think it can be proven useful. Also scouting in the beginning is good.

[Freddz]

I wouldn't say the unit is worthless, just that it is bit boring. And it will quickly become worthless.

Of course, as a cheap scouting unit in the start it might actually be priceless. Were there any "ruins" in the game? In that case the unit becomes even better.

[Buck Birdseed]

Think about it: Very early game, small map, no city walls, spearmen defending cities. You build five or six veteran jaguar warriors, and quickly send them to the nearby enemy outpost. Stab! Slash!

It's useful. Especially if it's cheap. A War Chariot may cost up to three times as much, for that one extra attack point...

[Urban Ranger]

I can't imagine it defeating anybody stronger than Warriors fortified.

I guess it can be good for scouting, depending on it's visual range,

[SorvinoBackhand]

Jaguar Warriors? Are We Playing Age of Empires II Now ?

Jaguar and Eagle Warriors as special units are direct rip-offs from Age of Kings. Even the last, greatest bastion of TBS games is going down the RTS route now. Bruce Shelley from Ensemble should sue Firaxis for plagarism. Blah...

[Eli]

Hmmm... If the Aztects were expansionists then it could be reasonable for early exploring, but as it is now the unit is quite useless for the Aztecs.

[jsw363]

Originally posted by Dan on CivFanatics
Actually, the Jaguar is a really useful unit, and the Aztecs are almost always still around in games I play, well into the middle ages. Movement actually impacts combat in Civ III, so the movement bonus is more useful than you would think. And, while you're busy scrounging food to generate another pop point so you can build a worker, the Aztecs are Golden Aging and cranking out more and more Jags. They can actually be a very formidable civ, but then again, no one ever gives the Aztecs any respect anyway...

Originally posted by Dan on CivFanatics

Originally posted by Thunderfall
I still think the Jaguar Warrior is pretty useless. In Civ2 I don't even dare to use a warrior to attack other warrior. There is no way a warrior can defeat another warrior fortified in the city.

Not true. I've seen Jaguar Warriors take out a fortified spearman in a city. Granted, it took more than one JW to do it...but the movement bonus keeps them from dying as quickly, which means faster combat promotion...

The AI controled Aztecs probably can't win any battles with their Jaguar Warriors and they will be forced to build Wonders to trigger a Golden Age.

In my experience, this is also incorrect.

[d_dudy]

i guess they know what they're doing, but it just seems week to me

[Inverse Icarus]

form an army of ten of those buggers and i'm sure you could terrorize some workers and settlers for most of the beginning of the game.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Dan (almost) said that movement is useful and allows you to retreat from combat.

Yes. At the first sign of attack, he can run away very fast

[PGM]

Originally posted by BeBro
Yes. At the first sign of attack, he can run away very fast

I would advise against criticizing something we've never seen nor yet understand. It seems to me that movement has now new strategic concepts, rather than simple motion. A unit's movement factor might be more important than what we're expecting right now.
If the JW is cheap, it may be useful. Considering ONLY what we do know so far (movement), the JW is the 1st unit, has a superior-to-date movement of 2, can act as a scout capturing huts, enemy settlers and workers and can trigger a very early GA (let's not forget this is all way early B.C.), which in my opinion makes the Aztecs a serious threat in the early game. And yes, early GAs may be somewhat inefficient, but if you don't survive the enemy early GA, waiting for your own will prove to have done you no good at all.
Quick-start civs may not win most games, but I'm sure they'll pick most civ losers in a game.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by PGM

I would advise against criticizing something we've never seen nor yet understand.

Exactly. But some ironic comments may be allowed...

[Melios]

Re: Jaguar Warriors? Are We Playing Age of Empires II Now ?

Originally posted by SorvinoBackhand
Jaguar and Eagle Warriors as special units are direct rip-offs from Age of Kings. Even the last, greatest bastion of TBS games is going down the RTS route now. Bruce Shelley from Ensemble should sue Firaxis for plagarism. Blah...

There's a reason both Civ3 and AOE2: TC have Jaguar Warriors as a unique unit for Aztecs: The Jaguar Warrior is basically the elite Aztec warrior. How can they be ripping AOK off if both are basing it on historical data?