What would you name the Chinese UU then?

[J10]

As a Chinese, I've enjoyed reading this rather amusing thread. Honestly 90% of the time I have had no idea what you guys were referring to, but that's what amused me

We were never too good at fighting on horses, the nomad tribes from the North (including the Mongols, of cuz) were, and that's why we have the Great War to isolate us from them, because they kept raiding on small villages.

Actually quite a few interesting and unique units were invented back in the ancient time, but we'd like to focus on war strategies, battle tactics and formation more than unique units. (ex. Predict how strong and in what direction the wind will blow, then set fire at that direction; Predict where they will run and put our heavily armored vehicles and soldiers there to wait for them to run to us, then have two groups of light calvaries waiting on either side to chase and kill those who escaped).

But let's stay on topic: Since we were never too good at fighting on horses, I don't think we have a specific name for our elite calvary. Riders were simply called "Riders", and I don't think "Raiders" is very appropriate because we never raid, we always settle. A fast and heavily armored rider (+1 d m comparing to knight right?) is impossible
let's just name it the Ti'Che, which stands for the "Iron Rider". I know some Generals in ancient China like to train elite riders, equip them with the best horses and use them (Ti'Che) to cut the enemy formation in half. That's all I could suggest, sorry bout the long post

[ranskaldan]

I'd have preferred the Chu Ko Nu from Age of Kings myself, since it was actually a distinct Chinese invention... but since there's no time to change the cavalry graphics, we have to make do with Tieqi. Or maybe Qingqi, which means Light Cavalry.

What a dilemma! How can a unit have +1d +1m?

+1d would be best named Tieqi (Iron Cavalry)
+1m would be best named Qingqi (Light Cavalry)
but +1d and +1m? what a weird combo.

And there's no sign Firaxis is changing this name yet...

[Harlan]

There has been much debate about the phrase Sheng-ch'uan. I'm no Chinese speaker. However, I have access to the book Imperial Chinese Armies: 590 - 1260 AD. I saw it today, and this book mentions that phrase.

The mention is when talking about the Sung army. Here is the reference:

"Training and drill were studied scientifically, and in the best units, men were allocated to different duties on the basis of examinations in shooting and various athletic pursuits. Units of sheng-ch'uan, or picked men, were selected for special tasks such as night assaults."

So there you have it - it is real Chinese, and actually means something (presumably, "picked men"). If real Chinese speakers don't understand it, could it be because the language has changed in the 1000 years since the Sung? If the language hasn't changed significantly since that time, then it would be just about the only one on the planet not to evolve. Certainly don't doubt the source - the book is one of the best books on the Chinese army in existence and draws most of its material from the Cambridge History of China series, which is second to none.

Given all that, it doesn't seem to refer to any kind of cavalry specifically, just elite soldiers generally. So probably not the best name replacement for Rider.

[J10]

Originally posted by Harlan
"Training and drill were studied scientifically, and in the best units, men were allocated to different duties on the basis of examinations in shooting and various athletic pursuits. Units of sheng-ch'uan, or picked men, were selected for special tasks such as night assaults."

I believe Sheng-Ch'uan is (ã‘I) "up" "choice", means elite, or best of the pick.

[ranskaldan]

Harlan, your excellent historical resources are great, it seems that there was such a unit after all...

As for the Chinese language changing... well, of course, all languages change. However, the weirdness of the Chinese language is that its writing doesn't change as much as the pronunciation does. Its pronunciation changes at the pace of normal languages, but its writing is 'fossilized'.

It's as if we still write in a modified version of Old English, or Proto-Germanic, even though we speak Modern English. Thus, the 'sheng-ch'uan' would be the Modern pronunciation of a term that would have been pronounced differently in the Sung dynasty, but would have been written in the same way (well, maybe with a different font, but it's the same characters.)

For the same reason, we Chinese can still read Confucius, 3000 years ago, with the same difficulty as say, Chaucer in English, because Chinese writing is artificially preserved. But if we heard Confucius, we would not understand a single word, because the pronunciation of the words have changed much, much more, at the 'normal' pace of all human languages.