(BIG) error in English/German ability assignment!

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
Swissy, you hit the nail right on the head!!!!

Sure England had many scientific/mathematic achievements but their real claim to fame as a civ has to be their great empire.

The pinnacle of the British Empire was certainly Expansionist and Commercial. They also lead the forefront of the Industrial Revolution and invented many things at that point in time.

However this comes against a backdrop of over a thousand years of warfare, during which time they fought national wars, religious wars and even civil wars and ended up with less territory than they started with. It is this internal turmoil that provided such rich incentives for the colonial programme. Until the industrial revolution France and the low countries were significantly more important in trade and wealth than England ever had been.

On a historical map an Expansionist England will be useless. By the time they can get their free scout onto a trireme the Germans and French will have snaffled all the goody huts and have a pikeman ready to kill the insolent scout who comes nosing around. Far better to be Militarist and prepared to repel those Romans when they come nosing over the channel, or take the fight to them first!

[lupusmalus]

Sorry guys, but both English and Germans were as expansionist as you can possibly get throughout all of their histories.

As for England, its foundation was laid by the Anglo-Saxons expanding into previoulsy Celitc Britain, then the Normans took over and went on to subjugate Ireland, (unsuccessfully) tried to do the same to Scotland and went onto another spree in France, at their height ruling over half of modern France! And would very much have liked to take the rest, too. John I was called "Lackland" because he lost everything north of the Loire. The Hundred Years' War was about English claims to the French throne, a claim not officially given up till 1802!!! And I just LOVE to play the English on map of Earth, it's the ultimate challenge, especially if you pack Europe and America with other civs.

As for the Germans, after the Germanic tribes had gone out to enjoy the Mediterranean climate pretty much everything east of the Elbe River was Slav, but if you look at a map of Europe in 1914 you see a German nation-state extending far to the east of that and German minorities all over Eastern Europe, far south into the Balkans and as far east as the Volga. Not to mention Wilhelm II's desire for a "place in the sun", i.e. colonies.

[lupusmalus]

Sorry guys, but both English and Germans were as expansionist as you can possibly get throughout all of their histories.

As for England, its foundation was laid by the Anglo-Saxons expanding into previoulsy Celitc Britain, then the Normans took over and went on to subjugate Ireland, (unsuccessfully) tried to do the same to Scotland and went onto another spree in France, at their height ruling over half of modern France! And would very much have liked to take the rest, too. John I was called "Lackland" because he lost everything north of the Loire. The Hundred Years' War was about English claims to the French throne, a claim not officially given up till 1802!!! And I just LOVE to play the English on map of Earth, it's the ultimate challenge, especially if you pack Europe and America with other civs.

As for the Germans, after the Germanic tribes had gone out to enjoy the Mediterranean climate pretty much everything east of the Elbe River was Slav, but if you look at a map of Europe in 1914 you see a German nation-state extending far to the east of that and German minorities all over Eastern Europe, far south into the Balkans and as far east as the Volga (not to mention Wilhelm II's desire for a "place in the sun", i.e. colonies). WWII reverted a millenium-long process of EXPANSION.

[Jusbaummer]

The pinnacle of the British Empire was certainly Expansionist and Commercial. They also lead the forefront of the Industrial Revolution and invented many things at that point in time.

However this comes against a backdrop of over a thousand years of warfare, during which time they fought national wars, religious wars and even civil wars and ended up with less territory than they started with. It is this internal turmoil that provided such rich incentives for the colonial programme. Until the industrial revolution France and the low countries were significantly more important in trade and wealth than England ever had been.

On a historical map an Expansionist England will be useless. By the time they can get their free scout onto a trireme the Germans and French will have snaffled all the goody huts and have a pikeman ready to kill the insolent scout who comes nosing around. Far better to be Militarist and prepared to repel those Romans when they come nosing over the channel, or take the fight to them first!

Right, Grumbold & co. English should be Militaristic, Expansionistic, Industrous, Scientific, Commercial and Religious.