A Civilization

[DarkCloud]

I was looking up info on Civs and I came across an article saying that a Civilzation:

was made up of people with
1. United Goals
2. Ethnic Enemies
3. Worked for common goals
4. Had common 'needs'
5. Sometimes had a common 'religion'

Now, don't you think that the Americans are a civilization?

In that list, nowhere was there a line saying that the people had to be of the same 'ethnic descent'

Now, if you wish to argue about Major Civilizations... that is another matter involving world economies, war importance (and this qualifies the Americans as a required civilization)

[KrazyHorse]

DarkCloud, by your criteria, California should be accepted as one of the 16. The point people make is not that the Americans aren't part of a civilisation; it's that they aren't a civilisation in and of themselves; they're part of a larger British civilisation.

To me, personally, it's a close call as to whether or not there's enough of a distinction between Britain and the US to term them separate civilisations.

[General Ludd]

what krazyhorse said.


And not to mention that is it a very new country and is among the hardest (in my opinion the hardest) to imagine existing in 4000 BC

[DarkCloud]

Actually search for "Britsh and American words" on yahoo and you will see that there are over 1000 words differing between the languages.

The cultures are also notably different.

[Dauphin]

"California" culture is different to "Louisianna" culture, which is different to "New England" culture. Things that are common to each of these regions can probably also be found in Britain.

Also, being illiterate should not make Americans a new civ in and of itself.

[Draco aka Se7eN]

The point people make is not that the Americans aren't part of a civilisation; it's that they aren't a civilisation in and of themselves; they're part of a larger British civilisation.

I think some of these veiws of what a civilization are really way out there. Where are you people from for Sids sake?

Get it through your thick skull America is not part of the English Civilization, Ever heard of America's war for independance. INDEPENDANCE !! As in hey we are our own country now aka civilization. Come on people.

Dont give me that bull either. Stop making up this random jiberish. Blah blah blah blah. Ohhh they were a colony ohhh blah blah blah they speak english they are part of the english civilization ohhh nooo blah blah blah Shut up.

Opps sorry, i dont like lame reasoning. Simple solution, stop posting lame reasons.

[General Ludd]

Opps sorry, i dont like lame reasoning. Simple solution, stop posting lame reasons.

The very same can be said about your 'reasons'.

[BackdoorMan]

Dictionary.com says:

An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.

Which qualifies America and disqualifies the Aztecs, Iroquois and Zulu.

[Draco aka Se7eN]

Reasons what reasons, Please tell me what reason i gave. The only thing i see im my post is fact. What is America In england, does england rule America? Did America not have a war for Independance?

This whole subject is mind boggling really it is.

I have to ask those who think america is not a civilization a question.

ARE YOU A TOTAL FREAKING ******? really are you, you can tell us, i dont care if you are, i just would like to know so i know why you think america is not a civilization. Otherwise just makes things worse, im not gonna get into that.

Does it even matter to you people what we have acomplished in over 200 years at all? Everything done with AMERICAN PRIDE!Does that not matter at all? NO you say, then what the hell does it take to be a civilization?

Really tell me why America is not a Civilization?

I seriously and honestly hope that the answer is not "Ummm you were a colony of the english empire ummm your language is similar to uhh the english language ummm you have only been a country for just over 200 years ummm all of your people are of european decent ummm yeah etc.. "

Because if it is then you might as well answer yes to the ARE YOU A TOTAL FREAKING ****** question.

P.S. By your logic i guess England could take credit for American acomplishments.

[General Ludd]

I don't think the issue about whether the USA should be in the game or not is a matter of deffinition - to me - it just seems out of place, all of the other civilisations have been around for ages and have a very old history, where as the USA is a brand new country, and it is a break off of the European countries, it seems very out of place to me to have a bronze age USA, especially while the Europeans are across the sea developing at the same time.

Though I really don't care whether they're in the game or not, like I did in civ2, I'll just play without them or modify them to be something else, and happily pretend they aren't included.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
Reasons what reasons, Please tell me what reason i gave.

That's percisely my point, you provide no reasons and merely say "I'm right, you're wrong".

How about trying to debate in a more civil fashion?



By the way, I don't believe anyone (I certainly am not, anyways)is trying to say that Americans are not civilised or that they are not a real country, but compared to the other civilisations, and from a historical point of view, having them in the game does not make sense.

Though, from a marketing point of view, they make alot of sense .

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Osweld
I don't think the issue about whether the USA should be in the game or not is a matter of deffinition - to me - it just seems out of place, all of the other civilisations have been around for ages and have a very old history, where as the USA is a brand new country, and it is a break off of the European countries, it seems very out of place to me to have a bronze age USA, especially while the Europeans are across the sea developing at the same time.

That is what's so funny about Civilization. It's not a historical simulation, but a game to allow you rewrite history completely. I always like the notion of Abe Lincoln the American Despot.

[Draco aka Se7eN]

LOL oswald your funny

Though I really don't care whether they're in the game or not, like I did in civ2, I'll just play without them or modify them to be something else, and happily pretend they aren't included.

Why didnt you just say this in the first place, im fine with this.

That's percisely my point, you provide no reasons and merely say "I'm right, you're wrong".

But you see the problem here is that i am right and you dont realize this. Now only a fool would think that he is always right and never admit when he is wrong, but i am no fool. You can say that it doesnt seem right or even say that you dont like america, that is fine, its your opinion. I am very pro others opinions. But a person who claims that america is not a civilization is either lieing or ignorant or a TOTAL FREAKING ******. A liar is most likely joking so its not really a lie. Ignorance is ok with me i dont mind an ignorant person. And i dont mind a Total freaking ****** either. Everyone has their opinions, but im sorry to say that opinions are not going to change the fact that America is a civilization. Do you think im wrong, Well prove it?!?! I could give you a long list of acheivments that Americans have created as Americans. If anyone can prove that America is not a civilization then i will admit i was wrong. Im always up for new things to learn. I would like to learn why America is not a civilization please tell me.

[ancient]

Re: A Civilization

Originally posted by DarkCloud
I was looking up info on Civs and I came across an article saying that a Civilzation:

was made up of people with
1. United Goals
2. Ethnic Enemies
3. Worked for common goals
4. Had common 'needs'
5. Sometimes had a common 'religion'

Now, don't you think that the Americans are a civilization?

In that list, nowhere was there a line saying that the people had to be of the same 'ethnic descent'

Now, if you wish to argue about Major Civilizations... that is another matter involving world economies, war importance (and this qualifies the Americans as a required civilization)

Do you honestly think that united states has United Goals?? no democracy has united goals! Im an american and i dont have a ethnic enemy nor do i know many people who do (and i dont think you can count canada)

[General Ludd]

Try reading my posts again, there are 2 points that you seem to have overlooked.

1.

How about trying to debate in a more civil fashion?

2.

I don't believe anyone (I certainly am not, anyways)is trying to say that Americans are not civilised or that they are not a real country