Let's customize the Big Six!

[Stefu]

If you glance at current statings in Locutus's Wanted Civs thread, then you see that there are six civs that all have lots of points. These civs are Mongols, Spanish, Vikings, Arabs, Inca and Turks. The gap between 6th and 7th is 120 points, so I think it's pretty safe to say that when (if ever) Locutus closes his poll, these six will at least be amongst sixteen most popular civs. So, let's customize them! There's already a thread for Spanish, so no point for that, but rest should provide us with some fun.

My suggestions:

Mongols
Empire Name: Mongolia
Leader: Genghis Khan (the obvious choice)
Special unit: Uhh... Mongol cavalry? It would be like Knights, but with greater movement and slightly bigger attack. Or would this make them too kick-ass?
Civ Abilities: Militaristic, Expansionist. This makes them the equivalent of Green Menace of Africa. Don't piss off the Mongols, man.)

Vikings
Empire Name: Well, with Vikings, this is obviously bit tough, since there were three Viking nations. Maybe something bland like "Viking Empire".
Leader: Canute the Great.
Special unit: Longships. These are like caravels, but with bigger movement. And they come earlier, 'course.
Civ Abilities: Commercial, Militaristic (Vikings didn't really achieve much in department of stable expansion, did they? And they were traders as well as warriors.) This makes them equivalent of Persians, which doesn't sound that right, but there are already two Commercial Expansionist nations in N. Europe.

Arabs
Empire Name: Arabia
Leader: Saladin? Muhammed? I'm not really an Arabic leader expert.
Special unit: Any suggestions?
Civ Abilities: Religious and Expansionist/Scientific. First would make them equivalent of Iroquis, seconf the equivalent of Babylonians.

Inca
Empire Name: Inca Empire?
Leader: Hmm... Atahualpha is the one everyone knows, at least.
Special unit: Again, no idea.
Civ Abilities: I'm at loss here, folks.

Turks
Empire Name: Turkey
Leader: Suleyman?
Special unit: Janissaries would be the obvious choice, but might they be bit too close, ability-wise, to French Musketeers?
Civ Abilities: Militaristic/Religious? With my knowledge, I can't find anything much better than that.

Well, that had quite many holes in it, didn't it? Nevertheless, do you have any suggestions?

[Waku]

Re: Let's customize the Big Six!

Vikings
Special unit: what about Bezerkers (not sure with the spelling)

Arabs
Special unit: one moving fast through the desert

[Footie Mad]

For the Vikings that would be Knut instead of Canute I think, if your gonna use him that is.

[tniem]

I think part of what an expansion should do is pick attributes that have not been used together in any of the original 16 civs. A quick check of the civ attributes show the following have not been used together yet:

Militaristic and Scientific

That's right there is only one attribute that has not been used yet. That means because there are 15 possible combinations (6 chose 2 = 6! / (4! 2!) = 720 / 48 = 15) that two civs have the same attributes. Those civs are English and Germans (Commercial and Expansion) and the Japanese and Aztecs (Religious and Militaristic).

So whatever we do we should not include Commercial-Expansion or Religious-Militaristic in the expansion.


***

Now for what I would choose for the six civs:

For the Arabs I would pick Militaristic and Scientific. They spread their beliefs by the sword (took over the Middle East, North Africa, and Spain). They also had an amazingly advanced civ during the European Middle Ages. They kept many of the Roman and Greek advances alive during this time. Sure they were deeply religious but those attributes have already been used. Of course this is only if the reason Scientific-Military was not used was not because it did not apply but simply because it was too dominating.

For the Incas I would use Industrious / Scientific or Commercial. They built an empire on the tops of mountains. They built a network of roads and their cities made advantage of waterfalls and small streams. Their workers were amazing making Industrious a logical choice. They were also very advanced and relied on trade. I would probably pick science but the option is there. I would also give them the special ability to found cities on mountains. After all they did it in history and should be alowed to do so in the game as well.

For the Mongols I would agree with Militaristic-Expansionists. The one thing I would argue against though is giving both an extra point and an extra attack point. This would be more to their special unit than any other special unit in the game. This would make it an obvious choice as who to pick to play in the game. Call the unit the Mongolian Horde?

I don't know enough to say anything about the Turks and I could agree with most of what you said about the Vikings. Except that I think they will pick the more known Leif Erickson not that Canute wouldn't be the better choice.

[Buck Birdseed]

Leif Eriksson wasn't even a king... Knut the Great is a bit boring too. My choice for leader of the Vikings is Harold Bluetooth (Harald Blåtand). I would also make it a Kingdom, since no empire of the vikings ever existed. Sure, there were actually three or more kingdoms at any one time, but the term could just generally cover any one of them.

The special unit I have thought about, and come to the conclusion that the best solution would probably be the Berzerker (Bärsärk) after all. Swordsman with an extra attack point and an amphibious assault ability. The alternative, almost as good, is the Longboat, which I'd make a trireme with an extra attack point and without the getting lost at sea handicap.

The Mongol special unit should be the Horse Archer, IMO. A knight with whatever makes Archers special as an additional attribute (and an extra movement point).

[Gangerolf]

Mongols
Empire Name: Mongolia

Are you sure they called their empire(s) "Mongolia"? I thought it was "the Khanate" or something. Correct me if I'm wrong.



I think a more proper name for the Vikings would bethe Norse. Vikings is a name for Norse raiders.
They believed in Norse mythology and spoke Old Norse.

Their special unit has to be the longship. The berserkers were a quite obscure bunch, warriors getting high on toadstool before battle.

I don't know enough to say anything about the Turks and I could agree with most of what you said about the Vikings. Except that I think they will pick the more known Leif Erickson not that Canute wouldn't be the better choice.

I would be very surprised if they pick Leif Eiriksson. OK, he discovered America, but he wasn't a leader, not even royal.

I think Canute/Knut/Knud was the most powerful of the Norse kings, but there are other strong candidates: Harald Hardrule, Harald Fairhair, St. Olav, Svein Forkbeard, Olav Tryggvason.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

I'd suggest that a Viking longboat special ability is a greater movement and defense. Those boats were very mobile and fast. As for the leader, how about Beowulf? Granted he was a warrior and later a minor king, but hell, he's famous.

An Arab special unit could be the mameluke. They were converts (IIRC) who took up the sword for Allah. Fast, strong on the attack, and motivated. I'm likely to die? Cool! Sign me up. Mohammed is the obvious choice for leader.

For the Inca, Atahuallpa is best known, but he was only one of two feuding successors to the throne left by his pa. He didn't do anything other than get his head lopped off by the Spaniards. I'll use this time to plug the Maya, who were more advanced, and resisted the conquistadores for generations before being subdued - as opposed to the Incan resistance of days) Anyway, the Incas were expansionist. Their empire was built by aggressive conquest. They were scientific and commercial, pick whichever fits the other civs best.

[Gangerolf]

About the civ abilities thing: I agree with the Vikings/Norse being commercial. Their second ability, on the other hand... They were expansionists, and although one might claim they did'nt hold all their conquered lands for long, they still did expand, settling/conquering "all over" Europe & the North Atlantic. I would say they were more expansionistic than militaristic.

[- Groucho -]

I like the Mameluke's for the Arab special unit, but I question having Mohammed as the leader. There are a lot of people who could be deeply offended by the idea of a game where the military defeat of Mohammed is an objective.

[Stefu]

Gangerolf, I chose Militaristic over Expansionist because English and Germans already were Com/Exp, and that would make it the third com/exp civ in Northern Europe.

They were converts (IIRC) who took up the sword for Allah. Fast, strong on the attack, and motivated.

How 'bout Knight with slightly smaller building costs?

Knut the Great is a bit boring too.

That's not a good way to pick Civ leaders! "Abraham Lincoln, you say? Naw, that's bit too conventional. Let's pick Richard Nixon!" "Yeah! Yeah! Richard Nixon!"

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Echinda
I like the Mameluke's for the Arab special unit, but I question having Mohammed as the leader. There are a lot of people who could be deeply offended by the idea of a game where the military defeat of Mohammed is an objective.

Maybe Hamas would suicide bomb the Firaxis HQ?
Seriously, you could say that about all the leaders.

[Gangerolf]

Gangerolf, I chose Militaristic over Expansionist because English and Germans already were Com/Exp, and that would make it the third com/exp civ in Northern Europe.

But does that matter?
Anyway, the Germans ought to be Com/Sci or Mil/Sci or Mil/Exp or something else.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Special unit: Janissaries would be the obvious choice, but might they be bit too close, ability-wise, to French Musketeers?

Didn't the Janissaries (at least some of them) use horses? They could be like dragoons, but better (faster or better attack).

[JellyDonut]

Mohammed/Muhammed may offend people, so maybe Saddam Hussein? Seriously. No one would be offended by defeating him, but some may be offended by his representing the Arab culture. I'm no Arab scholar, but there's probably a much better choice. Perhaps for the special unit the suicide bomber, who has extra movement and has the missile toggle (i.e. disappears after attack) on. Just kidding.

As for the Turks, I might suggest the name be the Ottoman Empire. It was the political entity until sometime this century. Plus, it has a better ring to it. And definitely make Suleiman the ruler (he was on A&E's top 100 people of the millennium )

Perhaps you could also compile military leaders for these civilisations. Just a suggestion.

[Wernazuma III]

Re: Let's customize the Big Six!

My suggestions:

Mongols
Empire Name: The Mongol Khanate
Leader: Genghis Khan (the obvious choice)
Special unit: Mongol knights - quicker than normal knights?
Civ Abilities: Militaristic, Expansionist.

Vikings
Empire Name: Well, with Vikings, this is obviously bit tough, since there were three Viking nations. Maybe something bland like "Viking Empire".
Leader: Canute the Great.
Special unit: Longships. I would make them like triremes with stronger attack and ability to navigate on high sea
Civ Abilities: Commercial, Militaristic

Arabs
Empire Name: Arabia
Leader: Saladin
Special unit: Mamluk (tends to attack own units )=cheaper knights
Civ Abilities: Religious, Scientific.

Inca
Empire Name: Inca Empire
Leader: Atahualpha (is the one everyone knows, at least)=RIGHT
Special unit: ??
Civ Abilities: Industrious, Expansionist

Turks
Empire Name: Turkey
Leader: Suleyman or Osman
Special unit: Janissaries would be the obvious choice, but might they be bit too close, ability-wise, to French Musketeers?
Civ Abilities: Militaristic, Religious

[Odin]

Vikings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Country name of the Vikings should be Scandinavia

The Longboat should be a faster Trireme that has only a 10 precent chance of sinking away from the coat

The attributes should be Expansionistic and Comercial

The leader Should be Knut the Great or Harald "Fairhair" Hardraake