If not Mao, who?

[Urban Ranger]

There are a bunch of people who don't like Mao Zedong to be head of the Chinese. So who do you think should be the choice, and why?

[tniem]

I don't know Chinese history very well, but I would think the best choice would be one of the guys from the old Chinese dynasties. Simply due to the fact I think that was when their nation's golden age occured.

Meanwhile, I think the Russians would be best to have either Stalin or Lenin. They led Russia to its best age.

[Rasputin]

Russias best age under Stalin or Lenin?? .. History now shows the deteriation started then and came to fulfillment recently

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by Rasputin
Russias best age under Stalin or Lenin?? .. History now shows the deteriation started then and came to fulfillment recently

Dont forget the Czars like Peter the Great.

[El hidalgo]

Originally posted by tniem
I don't know Chinese history very well, but I would think the best choice would be one of the guys from the old Chinese dynasties. Simply due to the fact I think that was when their nation's golden age occured.

Meanwhile, I think the Russians would be best to have either Stalin or Lenin. They led Russia to its best age.

Taizong (T'ang T'ai-tsung) of the Tang Dynasty (that was China's golden age), one of the greatest emperors. Or Xuanzong (also known as Ming Huang) also of the Tang Dynasty, under whose rule China produced some of its best artists and poets.

Peter the Great would be a much better choice for Russia. I would not call the Communist era Russia's best age....

[Buck Birdseed]

Why exactly is Peter considered that Great? Sure, he won some wars, and so on, but surely in terms of diplomatic and political abitily Catherine would have fair whooped his ass?

[Henrik]

Why exactly is Peter considered that Great?

Russia was turned into a modern nation (for that time) by Peter, he was Russias Louis XIV.

He built ST. Petersburg.
Modernized the army.
Made Russia one of the Main actors in Europe (replacing the Swedes).
Expanded Russia a lot.
And brought lots of culture and other stuff to Russia from Europe.

Catherine wouldn't have had the ability to do her stuff hadn't Peter existed.

He was also the first Russian Emperor (although the rest of europe still called him a tzar (king), which he wasn't).

[kolpo]

Don't forget that the reason why the communists became popular in Russia and China was because of the awfull policy of some ceasars who's policy lead to nations where the majority of the populaty was poor and had hunger. So those emperors(especial the last ones) aren't that good either. Without there awfull policy had communism no chance.

But I suggest for Russia: Stalin: we need something to hate
for China: one of the more enlighted emperors(some of them where quite good but those before Mao where awfull), maybe some of the buddistic period(when the leaders of china followed or admired buddism and where quite good and compassionated in that period)

[Juggler]

But Stalin was in Civ1, somebody (not from 20. century) needs to replace him - Peter the Great.

[Tventano]

For the chinese I think Mao is still their great leader.

For the russians Peter the Great is an excellent choice, but Lenin is still seen by most russians as their most important historical leader.

For the germans Karel V (or how do you spell his name in Latin?) is the most excellent choice, although Bismarck is a good second I think.

For the french I would vote for Louis XIV instead of Jeanne d'Arc, she could be a great leader.

[El hidalgo]

Originally posted by kolpo
Don't forget that the reason why the communists became popular in Russia and China was because of the awfull policy of some ceasars who's policy lead to nations where the majority of the populaty was poor and had hunger. So those emperors(especial the last ones) aren't that good either. Without there awfull policy had communism no chance.

You are assuming the Communist revolution was something other than a political coup; in other words a revolution from below rather than above. Also, the famines of the czars were nothing compared to the famines of the Communists. About 400,000 of the Czar's subjects perished in the horrible famine of 1891-92. About how many Soviet citizens died in the famine of 1920-21? 5 million. The figure is even higher for famines in China under Mao. In the 92 years preceeding the Communist revolution, the czars executed a little over 6000 people for political crimes. In the first 2 months of Communist rule, over 15,000 were executed for political crimes. This is perhaps getting off topic, but I just wanted to point out that the czars, bad as they were, were not as bad as the Communists.

But I suggest for Russia: Stalin: we need something to hate
for China: one of the more enlighted emperors(some of them where quite good but those before Mao where awfull), maybe some of the buddistic period(when the leaders of china followed or admired buddism and where quite good and compassionated in that period)

Actually, I would like to see different leaders who have different styles of play for each civ. Some leaders would be exceptionally evil, like Hitler, Stalin, Lenin and Mao. Others, such as Gandhi, would be exceptionally good. That could be interesting. The civs have different abilities in Civ 3, but the leaders, as far as I know, don't have different personalities and different moral dimensions, except as reflected in the abilities. A question: are the abilities simply abilities or are they traits? For example, will a militarist civ get into more wars or simply fight better in the wars it does get into? Of course you'd expect a civ to press the advantages it's got. Still, it might be interesting if leaders also had qualities -- 'treachery' ratings, 'aggressiveness' ratings, and so on.

Originally posted by Tventano
For the germans Karel V (or how do you spell his name in Latin?) is the most excellent choice, although Bismarck is a good second I think.

Carolus in Latin.

[Stefu]

I think that one big aspect is recognizability of these leaders. I mean, unless you have studied Chinese history, Mao is probably the first Chinese leader you can think of. Same with Caesar for Romans, Hammurabi for Babylonians, and so on.

[Uffty]

???????

I do not think anyone of you americans superbrains has the right to tear communism down, since you are not "free" enough to read about it

I am a very democratic person, but since I'm german, i Know BOTH systems and they are both not too different.

Democracy has one disadvantage: Crime!
Communism has one too: less materialism!

But ever thought about what democracy means....

It means the toleration of other things too, hmm communism!

Tolerate the fact, you dont know this government type!
Tolerate the fact, its not a bad one, IT HAS JUST BEEN ABUSED!

Nothing more to say

Lets focus on the game ....

[BSH]

Who? Well, I frequently use Huang Ti, the legendary and most ancient of emperors of the kingdom of Qin (Ch'in), from which China gets its name. The problem, which others have pointed out, is that our Western culture is largely ignorant of Chinese history. It's sad that Mao should be the most widely known emperor. But then, why not use Civ to educate?

[Uffty]

China & Russia

I think the Chinese Culture and their History is one of the most interesting things anyone can ever know about.

Read some books, you'll be amazed!
Japanese as well

I also like Russia's Culture.

They are all so individual ...hmmm. great!!